CT Raid and You.

[Maube]

I know some of you dont like Mods. You dont like things like that.

However... i was noticing last night that more and more people are saying 'screw this no CTraid for me'

Let me tell you what that does to the Raid Leader.

A. Makes it harder to keep track of who needs buffs.

B. Makes it harder to keep track of durability and knowing when to drop a repair bot

C. Makes it harder to monitor where people are before the raid starts and in the raid (example, the Shazzrah fight where everyone panicked and we wipes)

D. Makes it harder for me to check on resists and know who needs to start working on getting more resist gear or who the raid can help get resist gear for

E. Checking reagent supplies to let another of the class take over some buffage

F. Letting me hand out potions to those folks who dont have the potions to keep the raid up

G. Lets me keep track of Druid's Rebirth and Warlocks SoulStone

We are all making sacrifices to Progress... but it makes my job a HELLUVAH lot harder to run a raid when I have to be in tells with half the raid asking about things that a simple program will show me. Just ask the people who have lost an item they were entitlted to because I was caught in tell hell at the moment and missed their bid.

Consider this, installing it but ONLY using it on MC night. All it takes is a little checkmark in the addons folder once or twice a week. At least to help the Chieftan and Raid Leader maintain a little bit of sanity as I try to herd Cats.

Just Raidassist would be heavenly. Please consider the sanity of raid leaders..

http://www.ctmod.net/lowbw.ct?id=0

[Fomor]

I appreciate your situation Maube, however, I have never received a /tell from you about anything unless it was about water(granted, EVERYTHING in MC is an upgrade for me) I understand that it makes things easier for you, for me it slows my computer down to a crawl. So far I have not had an issue with healing without CTRaid, whether it is main tank, off tank or spot healing... and my apologies, but that is what I base it's need on. I could have a slide show and run the program that I don't need, or I could keep doing what I am doing. Now if my performance on account of lack of this program is an issue, then let me know and I will opt out of the raids to make space for someone else and just pursue other means to get better gear. I always show up with around 100 candles and plenty of bandages/potions and I don't think I have hindered the raid in any way on account of my not using an add on, but again, if I am wrong in this belief please let me know.

I will not use 3d party program for the following reasons:

1)They slow my comp down(it is 6 years old) to a crawl.

2)I don't see the need for them... convenience yes, need, no.

3)I played Asheron's Call and saw what rampant 3d party programs can do to ruin a game.

I responded to this because I am one of those folks that denounces the use of said programs, and while not sure this was directed at me, I certainly fit the bill.

~Fomor

[Maube]

Let me reiterate something...

There is a difference between people who CANT run CTraid... and the people who are too lazy/predujiced to even give it a shot.

I am not directing this at anyone in particular, just asking people to see my side of things here. Verissi and I monitor the bufftimers through CTraid. It really slows things down when an entire group doesnt have CTraid so we cant monitor the buffs. Before you started running, priests wouldnt bring enough candles, we couldnt check that before the raid and so ended up slowing us down even more.

All I am asking is for people to go halfway with me on this. As Gordantell and Verissi can attest, running a 40 man raid is no small feat. I have talked to people who's systems Cannot handle CTraid and I have talked with people who just flat out refuse out of stubborness.

yes it can be done without. Yes you do a fine job (I know your computer cant handle it so fear not) however, trying to get everything working like clockwork has to have everyone working together. But there are people last night who have a VERY important role that is automatically expressed through CTraid that refuse to get it for issues that have nothing to do with computer performance.

If I am distracted for one minute, Mags could Enrage and beat the crap out of people before a hunter thinks - oh I need to Tranq shot. When the moment Mags enrages a CTraid pops up telling them to do so (before I was stating why I really need people to help me out)

Same things with Shamans and Purge on Shazzrah. These are things that happened last night.

If your computer cant handle CTraid that is a completely different coat of paint.

Oh... and some of the people who I speak of have been raiding with us since MC first started... who have been asked... and apparently just ignore the request as they never come out and say, Computer cant handle it, or get it. ::shrugs:: just asking people who CAN, to help me out

[Grimgor]

Because I know what it's like to be in an asking position as leader, Maube, I wanted to give you some positive feedback on this. Also, I would support you if the raid(s) you led matured to the point where you could insist that raid members have both TS and CTRaid. I am an old hand at system configuration (I am an IT guy who got his start in the most basic of ways and worked up through the ranks) and can totally understand the notion of keeping a system clean. I know because I practice this, including with WoW. But I don't want to be a nail in the tire either. And so it is that I have CTRaid.

Happily, CTRaidAssist itself is light on system resources, is a single mod, and perhaps best of all, is not a pain in the hind end when it comes patch time because the CTMod people are always sure to put a new version out right away.

Edited June 29, 2006 by Grimgor

[Huato]

One thing to keep in mind with CT...they produce several different mods. CT_raid being one of them and the smallest. I run the entire CT Suite of add ons (well, download the entire suite, but run most), and that does add some overhead. The basic CT_Raid that is available is small, and shouldn't bog the system down too much (I say shouldn't, but I obviously do not know your system like you do).

I just wanted to point out that if you downloaded the full CT suite in the past, I can definitely see that slowing down an older computer, but just the CT Raid part of it shouldn't add much overhead (once again not saying it won't slow down your computer, just want to reiterate that there are different CT add-ons).

I run into this with the Onyxia runs I lead, but fortunately for that it is not as critical, but I have to remember to call out deep breaths over TS for those that don't have CT Raid.

[Fomor]

Perhaps it is my stubborn refusal to use outside programs talking, but shouldn't people be able to recognize and adapt to situations in a raid? I mean, shouldn't class leaders be on the ball as far as what their class has to do to ensure success without the raid leader telling them to do so?

Maube, as a Raid leader you are a coordinator, you should not have to babysit every member of every profession. The individual leaders should be able to handle their respective tasks.

Also, if a person is regularly showing up unprepared for a raid... be it reagents, repairs or whatever... that person should be pulled aside and told, "Hey, no more or you get left out". It works better and, I know at least me personally, it is better to be told directly you are screwing up than to hear about it second hand or worse.

[Vanidi]

Just my two cents on this

a) Ct_Raidassist isn't a program, it's a fully legitimate mod which merely alters the UI to show more information then it normally would. This info is fully availible and useable, as per Blizz's TOA and the programming for it is included in the fully-open information they release for mod-makers.

b) This may come out WAY more offensive than I'm thinking it may be (and I'm not meaning to be offensive at all) but what are the specs on your machine that having CT_Raidassist running as your only mod causes that many problems? I'm honestly kind of curious, as I only had that issue happen once right after a patch when they broke something or other, and ct was murdering resources.

c) 1 or 2 people without is fine, but then Joe sees that jane and jack don't have CT_RA, so why should he...and then Mary...and then... It's the way it goes. Coming from being the ML, and having gone through enough raid content, I really think it's something everyone should make every effort to have running. It helps make coordination, planning, and raid-running smoother and much less stressful.

[Gorrin]

Perhaps it is my stubborn refusal to use outside programs talking, but shouldn't people be able to recognize and adapt to situations in a raid? I mean, shouldn't class leaders be on the ball as far as what their class has to do to ensure success without the raid leader telling them to do so?

Maube, as a Raid leader you are a coordinator, you should not have to babysit every member of every profession. The individual leaders should be able to handle their respective tasks.

Also, if a person is regularly showing up unprepared for a raid... be it reagents, repairs or whatever... that person should be pulled aside and told, "Hey, no more or you get left out". It works better and, I know at least me personally, it is better to be told directly you are screwing up than to hear about it second hand or worse.

Well, why not just say, No CTRaid, get out? Because Maube isn't a cold hearted ###### like myself.

I think Maube's trying a very nice approach, she doesn't want to kick people out, but wants people to just try to help her out some. You can't handle CTRaid, she seems like she's giving people a break. You don't want to run CTRaid? She's still giving you a break. Just asking you to reconsider.

[Qiris]

Geeze folks how many times does Fomor have to say he's got a barely playable machine and cannot run ANY mods before y'all believe him?

[Gorrin]

Wow, how many times do people have to say "we understand" before you listen? You can't run CTRaid, fine. You don't want to run CTRaid, fine. Just reconsider if at all possible, I think is the message.

P.S. Oh, Fomor, by the way, you should run CTRaid, I don't believe your computer can't handle it... (This is a joke, Qiris)

And on that note. Buh bye

[Qiris]

Actually wasn't talking about your post, Gorrin. This is not a new topic and the same things keep getting said.

[Maube]

::sighs:: guys, this was just me asking for people to consider my position, not a post to flame each other.

[Gorrin]

Maube smel..oh, right.

Consider thread ninja'd...and now I'm gone again...feel free to disregard anything I say, I know I do

[Jeroabem/Sabrianica]

Just so you know, I have CTRA so I don't have to be sober when I raid. In fact, last night was my first "dry" MC in months. Kinda creepy.

Does anyone like pie?

[Maube]

Alright. Let me sum this up.

I know Fomor cannot run Ctraidassist. I have spoken with him about it. He has proved himself in the Core and in other instances. This was not a post singling out ANYONE. But rather to let people know why I request people have this installed. So let it rest with this poor guy, he is a Clanmate. Or I can start harping on shortcomings of others, not everyone can afford the uber system I run on. Or better yet, go pick on Gorrin. (and I still have problems and um... technically cant afford it either =p )

Some people dont know how this program helps a raid leader.

Remember everyone, these raids are not just about one person, but about 39 other folks as well. (or in last nights case with Luci... 29 )

[Qiris]

or in last nights case with Luci... 29

EEK! I was stuck in DC last night, six hour delay. If I was gonna stay up past 1 AM, I would sure rather have been in MC.

[Maube]

Egads that sucks..

And Hijaking my own thread... WHERE ARE THE PICTURES WOMAN!

[Qiris]

Oops, lemme get to work on that!

[Jeroabem/Sabrianica]

Does no one in this thread like pie!??!?111

[Qiris]

I do, a nice strawberry/rhubarb pie is heavenly. You making some?

[Waldonnis]

Deep breaths, all....nobody is demanding anything here and no ultimatums have been expressed. It's simply a request from Maube (and myself). Let me speak to a few points made above and my perspective...

Regarding system resources and CT_RaidAssist making the game lag out..believe me, I can understand it and it is far more pronounced for some classes than others (particularly decursing classes). The basics of CTRA's coordination are done through a chat channel and produces A TON of chat traffic in certain situations (Shaz fight, Lucifron, and Gehennas particularly, within MC). For classes that use only the bare minimum features, such as warriors and rogues, this isn't usually a problem since the add-on will just ignore messages that don't concern those classes. For others, such as priests, druids, mages, and other decursing/demagic/buffing classes, it receives every single debuff notice, buff timer synchs, and much more, making it a bigger hog for them compared to a warrior. There are ways to configure it to maintain the basics for raid coordination but minimising the lag...if you need help with that, I'd be happy to work on it with anyone and do some experimentation with Waldy (for curse testing, etc). Honestly, my CTRA setup has pretty much everything enabled and it even lags a very good SLI rig, so there is some merit to the claim, for the naysayers.

As for my perspective...what many may not know is how much I monitor the raid continuously during our runs and provide feedback to Maube based on what I see (such as "we need to drop a repair bot really soon...<insert name here> has two broken items and 4 other people are under 20%"). Reagents are just the tip of the iceberg and, honestly, I only do a reagent check every 30mins or so after that at most, so don't think that is all we're using it for. When you hear me saying we need to rebuff in TS, it's because I monitor every buff possible and know that several groups' buffs are dropping. Other things happen because of what CTRA allows folks like Maube and myself to see without asking 40 people "what's your durability?" or "how many soulshards do you have?". We could easily spend an extra 20-30 mins just doing "housekeeping chores" or setting requirements every time instead...

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is saying that doing this entire raid without CTRA isn't possible, so no need to get into "I raided for 9 million years without it and did just fine" stories...I'm just here to say that it's a HUGE time and effort-saver for THIS raid and those who work very hard to put it together and keep it going. If over half of the raid doesn't have CTRA, I'll personally give up doing what Maube has asked me to do for her during the raid...it'll just be too much work to be any fun for me.

No blame here, no ultimatums, no requirements, no indifference...just asking to give it a try and offering my time to help with any configuration questions/testing to minimise lag issues involved.

[Jeroabem/Sabrianica]

I do, a nice strawberry/rhubarb pie is heavenly. You making some?

As soon as my mom's Rhubarb is ripe, more than likely. I use Pineapple in mine, though, to increase the tart to the pie. Question, with or without Vanilla Ice Cream when served fresh out of the oven?

Deep breaths, all....nobody is demanding anything here and no ultimatums have been expressed.

<removed a lot of blah>

No blame here, no ultimatums, no requirements, no indifference...

Bull....oney. People don't start talking about pie and there will be indifference, requirements and blame laid hard, fast, and spread thickly with a mason's trowel!

[Raeda]

::Raeda dreams in her sleep...:::

::Fomor and Raeda were old and crotchety in their 100 seasons. Sitting outside the entrance of the Crusher camp in Orgrimmar, they watched the youthful warriors pass through the streets before them.::

::"Skah! Look at these whelps!" Fomor points his boney finger at a hunter dashing by. "Running around in Tier 4 gear like it was nuthin!"

Raeda draws slowly on her pipe before nodding at Fomor. "I've heard the young ones don't bother to take more than five to down Ragnaros now."

"Bah. They don't know how good they've got it!" Fomor crosses his arms in disgust. "I remember back in my day, we had to raid that firey pit with nuthin less than forty soldiers! And it was all uphill too! In the snow!"

"In the snow, Fomor? It was called the Molten Core for a reason."

"Hmph. Yeah, but, it wasn't with any of these fancy gizmos now! I only had a crotchety old computer that I had to crank start every morning!"

Raeda sighs and nods. "Oh yes, I remember well. I was stuck on dialup."::

::Raeda tosses in her sleep, rolling over and snuggling deeper into her furs with a 'hmph'.::

[Scryll]

Ok, it looks like it's my turn to hijack. RAEDA! Where did you get those beautiful sigs? I MUST KNOW!

[Huato]

I'm hijacking too!!

Where woman, where?!