On the Spoils of War

[Maube]

Aka Dungeon Drops.

Some people have been getting a little loot happy lately. Yes we have a lot of great gear among us... however NOTHING that has dropped will never be seen again. Patience and Planning among the DKP.

Purple doesnt mean we need to lose who we are.

If you lose a roll or a bid, remember, the person who gains the item is helping the whole. The Item will drop again, and you will get that shot at it again.

Its not like we are going to stop raiding Molten Core, Onyxia, Zul'Gurrub, AQ, UBRS, Scholo, Strat etc. UNLESS behavior like this continues

If there is something you REALLY want on a DKP raid... then plan accordingly and dont snatch up the first purples dangled in front of you. Had a lot of people making a fuss last night and I want to stop this from going any farther.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Maube

[Fomor]

Well, I don't get to see/hear everything like you do as the boss, Maube, and I don't really read the chat bars too much during a raid so I don't pick up on alot ... that said I hope it ain't serious gripin', because I agree, the loot generators will always make more.

Me personally, I am happy as a clam when I get something and not disappointed when someone gets it ahead of me because that just means 1)we have it easier the next time and 2)there is that much better chance that I will be the only priest needing a particular item when it drops later!

The raids are fun... a lot more fun than I thought they would be as a priest to be honest (though I have had many many dreams that have involved large flamey critters and 40 sets of health bars in my field of vision ). I have picked up 4 pieces of loot from the core so far, 2 no one else was gonna roll on(great for me because they were both items I really wanted) and 2 because other Crushers new I was bidding and decided to bow out to give me a shot(thanks again Benim and Katak!)... now if I go a couple trips without getting anything, that is fine because I know that eventually I will get what I want. I am just enjoying the ride.

I hope everyone kinda takes that to heart though, because what separates us from the "hardcore" raiding guilds isn't just time in the raids, but our mentality and outlook towards them. We play to have fun and enjoy the game... not to WTFPWN the next instance and stroke our epeens.

[Rhoach]

Yep. To be honest, one of my pet peeves is when someone is constantly linking loot in guildchat... it just serves to fuel the loot lust.

Remember people, we're not about the loot... if you are, there are plenty of guilds out there for you. This is not the one.

I'm not holding myself above this, of course. I can't deny that my heart jumps (and yes, I may become a little aroused) when I see one of those fat shiny purples drop in MC, but I try not to anticipate having it too much. After all, it's the player that makes the character, NOT the loot. To be honest, I'm actually afraid of Rhoach losing his nice little 'patchwork rogue' look if he gets too many epics. But I suppose that's the price one pays for power

What was I talking about again? I got a little off topic. Something about items? Gnomes? Armchairs? Gnomish armchairs? *wanders off muttering*

[Chrysalia]

loot lust

This monster is worse than any mob in Azeroth. It ruins friendships, guilds, and morale. There will be other raids, other drops, everyone gets a turn in this system. Loot is good, but loot comes and goes, the important thing is that the guild/raid as a whole advances when any member gets an upgrade.

You have to be able to see the broader scope of things. I hate to see people leave, but if they leave in a huff over a single drop, then perhaps their true intentions are now known.

[Maube]

Luckily the gripes were in tells to myself and others who then came to me, but mostly to me. I want to make my stand now before it does go beyond that.

And Fomor, glad you are having fun goodness knows I really didnt give you and Cwn a chance to say no =p Dragged you in as you said, before you had done the Blackrock Spires ::giggles::

[Odenn]

I'll admit that I am a loot craver but it is not the be all end of of everything. ((Maybe I have part dragon in me, I need to horde shiney stuff)). I want to be in head to toe epic so I can beat the Alliance senseless but if someone has more DKP than me or wins or random roll then I have no hard feelings and I'm happy to see them get it. DKP has been earned by those people and they deserve it and a random roll is just that, "Random!". We'll see this stuff again and it's only going to get easier to get it as time goes on.

[Wolf]

This is a very important post. We are not now, nor will he ever be loot mongering whores! It is not in our nature to do so. Loot is a fortunate side-effect of raiding, playing and reaching a state of general enjoyment and bliss in our gaming world with our fellow crushers. We have recently had some general winging amongst some people about the merits of why they deserve loot over others. Please cease and desist with this behavior. The dkp system is there for a reason, those that have it can use it.

For the record, any other individuals complaining about loot will be stripped naked, bound at their hands and feet, dragged naked crying down the main street of their home town and strung up by their nether regions for all to see their shame.

Please don't make me take such drastic measure. My wife gets upset with me when I take other people's clothes off and humiliate them publically!

[Rhoach]

My wife gets upset with me when I take other people's clothes off and humiliate them publically!

Unless it's her, of course. Oh snap! Oh snap!

*/sprint*

[Fomor]

My wife gets upset with me when I take other people's clothes off and humiliate them publically!

Unless it's her, of course. Oh snap! Oh snap!

*/sprint*

No, she prefers it when he takes off his own clothes and publicly humiliates himself like that...

[Alhazad]

My take on it is... this stuff will drop again. We're not going to stop doing Onyxia or MC. When something I want drops, maybe I'll get it, maybe I won't.. I'll be happy for the guy or gal who does get it.

I can understand the loot lust, though.. WoW is engineered where gear = character advancement. 60 is hard line for abilities and stats, so you're only getting better if you're getting Tier X. And, of cours,e a lot of the game's unique art/models are in the epic drops, so the "shiny!" factor is also there. But, again.. it will drop again. Stick with the run, help it grow strong and you will grow stronger with it!

[Waldonnis]

In the end, gear and loot....it's all a treadmill and never ends. What looks like perfection today is vendor trash tomorrow, and definitely not worth arguing or fussing over.

For those that think we will "move on" to BWL, I've got news for you -- you NEVER leave Molten Core, much like you never leave Scholo/Strat/etc. There are always guildies to help and gear up, Hydraxian quests and rep to get, and even sets to complete (tier 2 pants from Rags, specifically, which can take virtually forever sometimes). What this means is that you will see the same tier one pieces, weapons, trinkets, and cloaks over and over and over again. So, with that said, if you don't get an item that you really want now, meh, be happy for the person who did and just be patient...you'll get it eventually.

My personal motivation in our raids is figuring out and beating encounters...loot's nice, but if I weren't master looter, I'd probably be staring down our next foe before loot distribution is done (anyone who watches me in AQ20 or ZG knows that...I just start moving along to the next target before the first looted item link is posted).

Most importantly, though, remember to HAVE FUN first and foremost....it's what we Crushers do best

[Tainish]

In the end, gear and loot....it's all a treadmill and never ends.

But...how will I know when I've won? Will there be some nice cinematics that tie up the lore for me, or will I just get a whisper from Blizzard (Congratulations, you've won. You can stop now.)

I love playing this game with my friends, and I'm very, very happy that there is still a lot of content out there for us to explore. I'd much rather be where I'm at, then in some guild staring at the very end of end content. How boring would it be to know that Rhags was the last challenge for us in the known world, and that farming MC was all we would be doing for the foreseeable future?

But sometimes when folks link the item that their friend's, brother's, guildmate got from uber_mob_257, I feel like Rhoach mentioned before. There's more uber loot that I'll never get to see drop, let alone equip. I wants it my precious, and if I can't have it why do I play this game again?

But, I love it when guildies link stuff in guild chat that they've won. I feel good for them and proud of the clan. Same with loot from MC. I didn't win, but someone I've been fighting side-by-side with for weeks did win. Good for them and now they've spent their DKP so the next one is mine ALL MINE, BWHAHAHA!...erm...

Anyway, I'm happy when I see good gear drop that our guild was involved with. And I'm happy to know that there's more good gear out there for us.

At least I WAS happy until I found out there is no end. Gee thanks, Walddy.

[Gorrin]

Well, I do'nt know about y'all. I'm there solely for the phat lootz. Comraderie, and companionship? Pfft. I hate you all...especially Maube.

To quote that adorable lil lass from that chocolate factory movie "I want it now" (who was then summarily told to shut it by the gum chewing whore, but that's a different story)..

Oh, and for those of you looking for deeper insight or expecting me to have a point to posting this, I laugh at you.

[Baracko]

<begin sarcasm> I am going to go out on a limb and assume that this post does not apply to me, the supreme lord of the loot. (Sorry Huato... Im ripping my mojo back, and you shall not have it again!) My sole purpose is to whore loot and to show it off to all that will view it in its supreme glory. Most especially, it must be displayed in areas often viewed by Vruglutz to prove my leetness. The whole point of raiding is for me to get loot, and thats that. Baracko, the lurking lootwhore from hell, complete with recovered mojo <end sarcasm>

I feel the "pull of the shiney" as much as any *twitches*, but Ive had to learn in my 60's to be more careful. Gone are the days when you grew out of a set of gear in 2 days. My advice: plan your loot. *twitches* Decide in advance what things you are looking for and focus and hope for those. If they drop, bid...if they do not, let someone else who was planning on the item bid, win, and cheer them for it. *twitch, twitch* Remember, the better geared the whole raid, the easier and more fun it will be to get through it next time.

Another thought: I have seen issues of loot destroy raids. No raid = no loot. This is the best MC run on the server in my opinion! Enjoy the comradery, the challenge, and accomplishment and let the loot come. How many raids can you go on where almost 40 people are all laughing all the time? *twitches*

Third and finally, remember that some roleplay loot-freaks, so dont necessarily think that person doesnt want you to have it. Some of us roll on everything as a matter of principle with no intention of picking it up.

(*still thinks he coulda wore those Cenarion gloves...*glances at Maube*)

That being said, Im damn proud to run with you all, and plan on helping Rags kiss the floor real soon.

Baracko, the lurking lootwhore from Hell

Supreme Lord of the loot, complete with recovered mojo

Who now feels like taking a shower after writing a post so contradictory to his passion

[Huato]

Baracko, I never truely took your title from you! I ended up with my own title -> Loot Pig. Oink!

(We need a pig smilie now!)

That said, I fell like I've lived in MC forever (around 8 months now). lol I have spent a lot of time in there, both in a former raid and in Maube's raid, and this is by far the most fun raid I have ran in. We have a lot of great people in it and running it. I love the dkp system, hate the random system. I have very little luck in real life and it seems that carries over to my dice rolls in game. I want to stuff the dice in WoW down one of the lava cracks in Ony's lair, but they seem to find their way back to me each time.

Anyhow, I'm just glad we can do MC and Ony now on a consistent and successful basis. We proved a lot of naysayers wrong, and have a blast in the process.

And the rest will come in time.

[Cwn]

Well, for me, the loot is nice and all, but it's not really what I'm there for. My favorite runs so far are the ones where to many of the other warriors get disconnected and I end up having to tank something. Besides, they're just imaginary items represented by pixels. The fun of playing the game and laughing with the raid is way more important than that.

[greenbull]

Warriors -> Tanking -> Item Dependency -> Loot Necessity -> Die Less -> More Loot

yay.

[Maube]

The tanks got a full set of Fire Resist first.

So in reality, the three tanks in FR have more loot from Molten Core then anyone and yet I still hear griping.

I hear griping from folks who have gotten a piece of FR gear that the raid has supplied. Apparently folks forget that piece or pieces of FR gear is technically part of MC. I could easily assign DKP to those pieces which would put Greenbull, Relikk, and Al completely out of the running for any other MC loot until no one else wanted it. Is that fair? No. Because they need that gear. Tier 1, the pretty shinies are a bonus.

MC does not require a full outfit of purple. Yes it makes life easier, but Rags ONLY does Fire Damage (unless you get double smacked and take a lot of falling damage)

Guys I remember in instances when we couldnt GIVE loot away. Lets not forget this mentality. Or everyone is going to be without a molten core run. Or at least down a raid leader who has put pretty much my entire gold supply into the raid.

[greenbull]

I was posting an Edit on the last post talking about the FR gear that we got from the raid and how the post could be misunderstood, but you posted before, so nevermind.

This talking about loot is really stressing Maube and Verissi and other people that are really interested in the raids, and that's not fair with them. When we started running, we are not even sure that we could make FR gear (we were going to farm the Cores and stuff from our first raids to make it, remember?), and everybody was interested in going the raid progress. We were all respec'ing (I always hoped to be a protection warrior/tank, but several other people changed specs to help in the raid and pratically stoped BG'ing, etc...), searching for gear, etc...

I remember running DM with Volo to get my tanking weapon, or doing the long quests on WPL to get the Ornate Breastplate, we gave a lot of blood only to get to see Ragnaros, and just for the fun of it... Nobody was expecting tons of loot on the first week, and I almost died when Maube handled me the FR gear :\ (and I was terribly embarassed, it was too expensive)

So let's take our asses to the "Molten Core, we need your help" thread and try to build up some more items, and not just wait to Maube handle us potions and consumables when we log in. Let's make the raid bank auto-sufficient. (sp?)

Yeah, I know, it's kinda of a 'mea culpa' from me because I sometimes get mad losing items, but it goes away fast, and I contributed very little for the Dark Iron stuff I got, and only now I'm getting some time to farm for stuff to bring to the raid, at least to make my own potions, sharpening stones and repair bills.

I remember the same runs that Maube remembered, where the 'fight' was to see who wanted to get the loot because everyone was passing for the good of another. We are not all Crushers on the raid, but the others are cool as crushers, so we can get back to the crusher way. And help the raid/guild as a whole.

[Fomor]

Well, I was gonna make a nice long sentimental "Why I love the Skullcrushers" post elsewhere, but many of the reasons that I would list have been touched on in this thread and I think this is the place for this reply then.

First, I have been playing MMOs since '99 when Asheron's Call was released... thought I would hate it because I have been playing Table Top RPGs for about 16 years at the time. I was wrong, I got hooked, played AC then Anarchy Online, then back to AC then STar Wars Galaxies and now finally WoW. I enjoyed every one of those games and each time found myself in a group of predominantly RPers and like minded individuals... it was great fun, but, in most cases RP=limited or no End Game. I accepted that and just enjoyed playing the game the way I wanted and accepted that I wasn't going to get to do all the cool stuff or have the "phat lewt" c'est la vie.

Then I grew bored with my alliance druid and all the drama llama antics and out of boredom made this undead priest named after the wyrm tainted minions in Werewolf the Apocalypse, soon after my lovely lady friend made an undead warrior named after the pack of the wild hunt. We started exploring life on the Horde side and steadily grew to like the atmosphere and general maturity over here and gradually our little side characters grew to be our mains. Then one fateful day back in April, I made a post on the guild recruitment forums looking for a Horde RP guild on AD. The nest day I had an email from a fellow telling me to talk to Maube. It was the best decision of my WoW "life" thus far. My lovely lady and myself found ourselves in a clan full of folks that were creative, interesting, funny, witty, goofy, engaging, mature without being stodgy, and most of all open and helpful. After a week I knew I had found what I was looking for, and in fact it completely reenergized my MMO drive. I kind of figured that I had once again found myself in that fun RP guild that, while I won't see the "end-game" I will definitely have fun. I was wrong. I hit level 60 and a few days later I was healing in the Core... on a main tank in some fights as well. Here I was in a fun, RP guild, running through the very content I never thought to see. I was amazed... still am really.

Then something else amazed me... fantastic loot was dropping, and people were all getting turns to get stuff... even newbie me. I was ecstatic. After hearing all of the horror stories about how people ran raids, I was floored... we had how many tanks? Feral druids? Shadow Priests??? And more importantly, we had fun. I know that running this raid is a lot of work for Maube and Verissi and the assorted class leaders, and I think we should all realize that and make it easier for them by not complaining and griping over stuff (especially when it will drop again), and by remembering that it is about having FUN.

And that is what I will do anyway. In my little eccentric online family full of creative, interesting, funny, witty, goofy, engaging, mature without being stodgy, and most of all open and helpful people. All having fun.

[Jeroabem/Sabrianica]

Loot: Been bent out of shape over it before. I refuse to let it happen again. Period. You want it bad enough to get excited? I'll step out of the way, pat you on the back, /cheer and /grats you and move on. Why?

THE GUILD. Last night, twice, no three times I called on the guild to assist me - not the guild - me with tasks I could not accomplish on my own. Fomor and Cwn came twice, Scryll the other time. The night before, I had mentioned being close to completing the gathering of supplies I needed for the Amulet of the Darkmoon (Epic, Level 60) and Nobuyata and Shalaan stepped up and supplied me with what I needed. Several times since being guilded, I have gone to Maube with questions, ideas and opinions, and everytime she has been accomodating and helpful. I've killed mobs with Odenn's rogue alt, which was a ton of fun. I'm looking forward to diving into the dungeons with you guys pretty soon with Sabrianica, partly for the loot, but more for the experience of running with my online family, my guild.

[Lunessa]

All lies! I deny everything!

[Jeroabem/Sabrianica]

I'm a liar and I can admit it. I allowed myself to get worked up over a CHT. I'll try harder next time.