Homoginized Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Ok, so supposedly TSF and CSC have an "alliance".......But well.....I guess it's in title only. Alot of people in TSF are upset in how no one in the guild gets into ANY of your raids, but if one does, they get "stolen" by CSC. An alliance is not to take another guilds members, but instead is to help each other out...... Which CSC has yet to ever do. Me for one have been the 1st person to sign up for some raids and have NEVER gotten in one. I know you give priority to those who raid all the time. That may be fine if you aren't in an alliance, but since we supposedly are, it would be nice for CSC to act like one for once. Rant over....... And I know this ruins all my chances of being in your raids, but these things needed to be said. As an officer of TSF, I am sick and tired of hearing all the gripes about CSC and thier raiding system, so I am posting this for not just me, but any TSF member that has been snuffed by your raid leaders time and time again Homoginized 60 Tauren Warrior "And yes, I am the same consistancy through and through" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I want to make sure I understand this. So there are existing CS raids that have had the same raiders pretty much attend since inception, that get filled by those same people week in and week out, however, there is a list that when regulars cannot attend , get filled with those on the waiting list. Am I understanding the request correctly that those raiders be shelved to allow for new raiders to attend? Perhaps it would make more sense to create a raid for TSF and all its members and seek out those that would like to assist in filling that raid from the alliance so that each and every TSF member would be able to attend, no? Our raid sign up sheet does not mean that everyone that signs up gets into the raid, with priority absolutely being given internally and to those that have been attending from the beginning. It only makes sense for that to be the case as any leader of anything looks to its own people first. Now that being said, most CS have several high level alts that would likely welcome alternate raid options to help TSF fill out their own raid so that they can participate in end game content. Please don't treat the raids as a reason to ######, but rather as an opportunity to work it from the other side and establish TSF raids and use the alliance to help fill your raids and lend useful experience as opposed to ranting or venting. That seems to me to be a more logical approach, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoginized Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 It does....... But we also have tried to have our own TSF raids, and since we don't have the #'s for some reason, we HAVE asked CSC members to help fill slots....... And NO CSC members have showed..... So you're idea is good in theory, but actions speak louder than words. It just seems that CSC just doesn't really care at all, so why start an alliance w/ someone?...... And your reply still doesn't account for the large # of members CSC has taken from us I don't mean to rant, but it seems that every allince we have ever made ends up screwing us somehow, and frankly that is not fair at all to us. So I do apologize for the rant, but they are things that most everyone in TSF feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martok Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 So the overall idea of this post was to complain that we haven't allowed enough of TSF members in our raids? Just like Grawuulf said, we ALWAYS look inside our guild first, then to our friends outside the guild. We have some long time runners from other guilds that attend. The MC raid has been going on for several months now with pretty much the same group. How many people do you bring to the table to outfit a full MC or even a ZG run? I have alts that could attend such events, but I have never been asked or even knew about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baracko Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) Okay, considering where this is going, Im going to step up and address this. First off, it was the impression of most in CSC that we were approached about an alliance by Peeta and Jerika in the hopes of helping you fill out your raids. However, other than getting a link for the TSF boards, no other mention was made by you as to what you needed help with. We are a group of adults who like to spend time other places, and that means we have lives and things to deal with. We cannot be expected to be mindreaders. Second, as one of the CSC raid leaders, when I learned of the alliance, I reached out to TSF on your boards and offered up my ZG raid as a possibility to get to know you better and fill out the raid. Peeta, Jerika, and a few others attended not only my raid but a few MC's as well, and to the best of my knowledge, had a great time. Many recieved loot and were extremely happy with how things went. This went on for a week or two, the people stopped signing up, with the exception of a few. Some we havent invited back because they werent pulling their weight and were replaced with more useful people. Others chose to join our ranks of their own free will. To the best of my knowledge, no one was EVER approached about membership or stolen. I have since filled the spots that were open in my raid with others who would show regularly. Furthermore, I asked many TSF members I knew where everyone was.... none could give me a concrete answer. Whether or not you choose to sign up is your business. Whether or not you get in is mine. Peeta and Jerika often got in because I was short on priests and mages, and because they are great players. I am, however, not at all short on Warriors, and CSC has some incredibly talented ones to boot. Homogenized, you play probably the most popular class on the server. That is not my problem. As a raid leader and a player, I have been nothing but kind and respectful up unto this point. I still count many of your number as friends. I had offered spots to your members where they were available - it is not my problem they dont sign up. I dont have Warrior spots open in my raid, and there are very few open in any raid. That is not my problem either. If you want our help with raids, please set them up, post here about them so we know in advance, and we will do what we can to help you out. Do not vent your frustration on me because you, as a leader, are not able to form a raid on your own. Baracko Clan Skullcrusher Shaman Warmonger Zul'Gurub Raid Leader Edited October 31, 2006 by Baracko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoginized Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 We have raids EVERY thursday......For ZG and AQ, we usually have about 12-15 show up. We are also in the works of finding another day that is good for the guildies to raid. Unfortunately, we don't have the numbers to even attempt a MC raid because we couldn't fill even half of it. We are short on priests and druids (mainly cuz some of them left for others guilds so that they can actually raid). And no, my rant wasn't mainly about raiding, it's about how an alliance should work, but since I'm still getting the same generic response from all of you on this matter, I am done discussing this. If you truly are interested in filling any spots for our raids, send a message to Peeta, Jerika, Ishbal, Rakdur, Linet, or myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houli Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Sorry to hear you feel the alliance is screwing you... truth be told...ive felt screwed over before...but i realise it is my own fault for not owning my expectations. I have gone to the MC raids many a time have been first to sign up, and did not get chosen...i have the advantage of knowing Maube is a good person and she isnt political... She's just filling her raid out... she is there week in and week out, contributes alot! of time and resourses to keeping it running (even more so when it was trying to get started) The Sworn Few seem like a good buch of people, and perhaps with the expansion, with smaller dungeons and quests more groupings will naturally occur, granted the raids are smaller and you guys can man them yourselves, but somtimes you just need one more and perhaps a Crusher can help you out. -Harne/Haq- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baracko Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Homogenized, you are missing the point. If you need our help, post a link to your signups and let us know what you need. Most of the raid leaders in this clan have worked DAMNED hard to make our raids what they are. I had to seek out the classes I needed, and talk to alot of folks. If you are serious about making those raids work, then put in the time, and get them together. You are going to fail a few times. We did too. I am not going to do your work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qiris Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Sorry to quote you at length but it's necessary to talk through this with you. If you truly are interested in filling any spots for our raids, send a message to Peeta, Jerika, Ishbal, Rakdur, Linet, or myself If you want help, then you need to post it where we will see it. I can't speak for anyone else but I work for a consulting firm and I have very little time during the day to look at my own guild's boards. I never go to the Argent Covenant boards so the chances of me finding your boards are non-existent. May I suggest you start posting HERE when you have events you'd like folks to consider signing up for. Look at Grimgor -- he posts his events here and that way we know they are coming up. We are also in the works of finding another day that is good for the guildies to raid. If you ran a raid on a Saturday night, I'd be all over it myself. I've got my 60 mage and I have a 60 priest, take your pick. CS doesn't raid on Saturday nights alas, and that's by far the best night for me personally. since I'm still getting the same generic response from all of you on this matter, I am done discussing this. Finally, may I humbly suggest that the best way to garner interest and support for your cause isn't to tell us you are done talking about it, but to continue the discussion. Unless of course you just wanted to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakdur Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) I completely agree with homoginized. This alliance makes me sick, frankly. I was tired of never getting into any raids after about two weeks, along with many of my guild mates. I am told be a VERY trusted source that the player who now plays Evangelina told Maube that I rolled on a ###### rogue sword, and to not let me into raids anymore. Apparently it worked! The 'new' Evangelina told this to my trusted friend, and HE THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY!! Barako, I sincerely thank you for letting me stay in ZG raids, but when Homoginized, and other of my guildies could only get in once or twice i could not continue raiding with yall. As far as Maube, I have nothing to say to you. You belieaved something that in complete bull###### about me without anyone's word but a person who took over his sister's charactor. It was a genuine blast raiding with yall, but this alliance is bull######. Good luck. Edited October 31, 2006 by Rakdur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maube Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Rakdur - you didnt get into my raid after you ######ed at me for taking my time to make sure none of our regular warlocks wanted the slippers. You gave me a nasty attitude and these things are not appreciated. Your ISP was also logged as trying to hack our signup page. And during ZG one night you cast 6 curses all night and Hunterpets out DPSed you. As for this sword - I havent the foggiest notion what the heck you are talking about. A couple of the old SF came to me and told them that since they were being ostracized because they still raided with us - and if they could consider a chance in the crushers. I told Peeta from the start - I cant guarentee spots in the established raids for new people - I would try - but the main point was to get TSF to start up their OWN raids in which Crushers filled out - but no one tells me what the heck days you guys are trying to fill or any of that - I dont read minds. Warriors are unfortunatly very popular - I have a hard time rotating warriors in and out because we cant gimp the raid. I bench my own guildmates to get new people in - if you played practically any other class something could be worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katakorinthia Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 ahh the joy of /whine.. nothing says friends like attacking someone on their own forums.. all the raid stuph i couldnt care less for.. the raids we run are not AC raids.. they are CSC raids.. so saying we are ' greedy ' an what not is pretty lame.. considering we allow alot of non-skullcrushers into the raids.. as for your own raids? or stealing your members? hi.. if they wanted to stay they would, people leave an join all the time you cant blame others for their choices.. an I have NEVER heard anyting about you doing raids EVER.. so maybe you should post more about it.. meh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maube Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 We agreed to the Alliance to help you - but we cant anticipate your needs. You guys have to take the intiative. I am not leading more raids then MC because I cant take the pressure. And Rakdur... telling my husband he was a ###### ###### isnt a good way to get into my raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellon Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 My two cents. . . Please do not blame the raid leaders for there choice of people to put into the raids. I for one know that Maube IS trying to rotate new people into the MC raid. But you must understand there is alot of other people that also sign up. Plus just because you are not listed as accepted dosn't mean that you won't be chosen as a fill in for people that did not show up. Every week we have several people that miss the start time and get their spot filled by others that sign up, BUT you must be online and be ready to go. This may take some time and patience is neccessary. This is how you become a regular to run MC. Now for the 20 person raids these are much harder to get into and from time to time spots do need filling. As for attendance into TSF raids, I am guilty as charged for not attending them. I must appoligize for this, but I already attend 4 raids a week as well as help out with the younger ones with quests. The thought of the SC using this alliance for a recruitment is simply and completely untrue, I'm online alot and I am an elder, this is not practiced inside this guild. We have lost many memebers to other guilds due to the same type of alliances made. I can name at least 10 of the top of my head, some where good friends. These people are still my friends, we just do not comunicate as much. I do know the anger that is felt when you loose a guildmate to a friendly guild, but this is that persons choice and only that person. So by sending this type of message is just plain wrong. The TSF is a VERY RESPECTABLE guild, and have good leadership, I only wish the best for all of its members. We do share a common philosophy, there is no reason that a solution cannot come about. Suggestions would be for BOTH the TSF and CS to post on each others site's any and all needs, dates and times, for each of the raids/groups that are in occurance. I for one enjoy alliances and would like to participate more with them. My time is limited online and I can be very busy, but I will when I can help out and would very much like to get to know more of your guild. Now, that being said, I would like to think the rest of this string would be more to the positive than anything else. If my post seems unbelivable or if anyone thinks I don't mean what I have said then there is no need to post or even to try to contact me in game, I'm here to have fun not to be harrased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakdur Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 (edited) I love how you are saying this about the hunters pets out DPSing me when I was personally informed NOT TO USE ONE. And way told "We dont use threat meters." By you maube. And about what I said to Katik, i handt even thought about it, but i ###### talkned to him about it, apologized and he told me he didnt even care, and that he knew i was joking! As far as My ISP trying to hack your Signups page, that is utter bull######. Every single person that i have talked to in TSF vouches for me. That is bull######. I also love how you say there are limited warrior spots, but you let Cal in every time from the start. Hmmmm? And another thing: Me posting has nothing to do with me specificly not getting into raids. Its nobody from my guild execpt the leaders getting in. Frankly, your guild can blacklist me, ban me from these forums and ban me from your raids. I dont care. But if we are going to stay in this bull###### alliance, yall are gonna have to pull off your end of the bargain and actually start the MC #2. As I recall about the time we all knew about the alliance, i go onto your signup site and guess what?! I see MC2 Cancelled. And thank you, Corellon. I only wish that I was capable of showing that much respect at this point. nd by the way, I have even had people apologize to my guildies and I because of this alliance. Edited November 1, 2006 by Rakdur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellon Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Rakdur. . . . . It's time for you to stop please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maube Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 (edited) Rakdur - I never said I would start MC2 for TSF - I said when you started your own I would get Crushers to sign up. I have enough to do with running my own raid AND the guild. And Calendar was the only non crusher that I rotated in because he was the only one who signed up - when he gets geared I rotate another one in. Then I was told he was being ostracized because he still ran with us - he was with us in ZG since the conception. Now we have more signing in - but I only have one spot to rotate and I agreed to get Cal geared I am telling you the truth - I never accused you of hacking but I did say your ISP did - you mentioned there was someone else who had access to your puter - so I told you what was going on. Edited November 1, 2006 by Maube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scryll Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 In all the time I've spent online since we started trying to work with the Sworn Few, I have only twice seen your guild approach us and ask for help filling out one of your raids. One of those times, I was the person contacted *by Peeta, I believe* to ask in guild chat if anyone wished to join your AQ run. A few of the dozen Crushers online at the time expressed interest and I sent them along to Peeta. I THINK one clothie joined your run, but I know the others were rejected because you were full up on those classes. It happens. I haven't been approached, or heard of any in the Few approaching anyone else, to get people to attend a raid since. And I know the attempt on our end to start a second AQ run, to accomodate the people who couldn't run in Crik's, for whatever reason, didn't get any interest from SF members either. Nor have I been seeing SF members singing up for MC except for those slots where we're already overflowing, like your own warrior class. No mages, no rogues, the only priest I've seen has been Peeta who doesn't seem to be signing up anymore. If there's a problem it surely isn't solely on our end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alahandriah Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 You all need to undstand that it was all a generalized it was NOT to point fingers at anyone and if anything you all have been pointing fingers and you all need to know that it was all just to let you guys know how over half of the Sworn felt and if thats such a big deal then maybe it souldnt have been brought up but trying to get you people to realize that its just the way we all felt is like trying to beat a dead horse. And to EVERYONE In CSC we only wanted this to work and it seems like there is a HUGE miscomunication between the 2 guilds and for all i care it can all be shot to hell and back i dont care but you guys should be ashamed for pointing fingers and being mean to eachother and acting like children!!!!!!!! Oh and just another peice of my oppinion (which can be shot to hell too for all i care) THERE IS NO REASON TO SINGLE OUT ANYONE AND MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE ######!!!!!! PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES GET OVER IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maube Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Ok, so supposedly TSF and CSC have an "alliance".......But well.....I guess it's in title only. Alot of people in TSF are upset in how no one in the guild gets into ANY of your raids, but if one does, they get "stolen" by CSC. An alliance is not to take another guilds members, but instead is to help each other out...... Which CSC has yet to ever do. Me for one have been the 1st person to sign up for some raids and have NEVER gotten in one. I know you give priority to those who raid all the time. That may be fine if you aren't in an alliance, but since we supposedly are, it would be nice for CSC to act like one for once. Rant over....... And I know this ruins all my chances of being in your raids, but these things needed to be said. As an officer of TSF, I am sick and tired of hearing all the gripes about CSC and thier raiding system, so I am posting this for not just me, but any TSF member that has been snuffed by your raid leaders time and time againHomoginized 60 Tauren Warrior "And yes, I am the same consistancy through and through" We are being attacked Alah. Never once did Homogenized come to me in whispers to talk about his concerns. as a raid leader that is what I rely on. I dont know him - Never grouped with him - knew Calendar from ZG - knew what he was capable of. I dont invite strangers to my raid unless I really need them. (aka priests) And people get invited back if their behavior is appropriate. When I had a problem with a member of TSF I went to Peeta and talked with her in TS - Baracko was privvy to that conversation. You dont walk into someone's house - accuse them and then expect them to not defend themselves. This is essentially what happened. And harrassing in game? That isnt a good way to mend broken fences. Never do I tell someone 'You should leave your guild and join ours' or 'I will giveyou this that and the other things to join my guild' or even 'I will give you a permanent raid spot if you join our guild' we have many members of the raid who arent Crushers. If they find themselves homeless would I welcome them? Of course - I know them - they are friends now. We do NOT fish from other guilds. Our raiding system has been in place for almost a year now - we encourage people to start their own raids with their own rules and regulations and that is why Crushers agreed to the alliance - to Help TSF make their own raids - to fill in the classes they needed - not to give you our raid. 4 members of TSF had spots in our raids until they stopped signing up - that happens. Some Crushers cant even get into my raid because they had to take a leave of absence for a while. ###### happens. All it takes to get crushers to fill your raids is a whisper to one of us to ask in guildchat. we rarely have less then 10 members on during prime time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoginized Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 (edited) Suggestions would be for BOTH the TSF and CS to post on each others site's any and all needs, dates and times, for each of the raids/groups that are in occurance. I for one enjoy alliances and would like to participate more with them. My time is limited online and I can be very busy, but I will when I can help out and would very much like to get to know more of your guild. I appreciate your respect Corellon. And that brings up a good point. Why am I being asked to post raids and such on CSCs site when NOONE has posted not one thing on ours (and yes that includes your leaders). I would be happy to post future raids on your site, but we also expect the same respect of ya'll. And as to Maube saying that Cal was the only one to sign up, that is completely untrue. I check your raids signups on a daily basis and see TSF members signing up and getting snubbed. As far as him being ostricized, I personally did it because he time and time again didn't come to TSF raids because he was raiding w/ CSC......That is not a good guildie, so I let him know. One last thing, I DO NOT appreciate being personally attacked or being singled out for expressing the opinion of my whole guild. This "discussion" was in no way about just me not getting into raids. It is about the fact that supposedly we are in an "alliance" and I feel that TSF has tried to do its part and CSC has pretty much done nothing. I will now refrain from adding to this discussion anymore until TSF has an officer's meeting as soon as Jerika or Peeta logs on, and I do apologize for starting this whole rabble, but as I said before I was tired of hearing all the gripes from people in TSF and decided that somebody had to bring this topic up 4 members of TSF had spots in our raids until they stopped signing up - that happens. Some Crushers cant even get into my raid because they had to take a leave of absence for a while. ###### happens. Maube, the reason why those 4 don't sign up anymore is from the reasons I have brought up......And I did contact Baracko before in tells about this a few weeks ago.....And well....Obviously nothing was done Edited November 1, 2006 by Homoginized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alahandriah Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Ok and i understand that but like i said It was ment as a generalized statement and EVERYONE makes mistakes and i just feel like this was taken way out of line and tht its NOT worth fighting over. Oh and the fact that Homz was singled out when he said it was the way alot of people felt in TSF ..... I didnt think that was right nad the fact that yes you guys SHOULD NOT be expected to just give TSF raids but from the way i understand it you and Baracko were contacted at one point or another to try to tend to the issue and it was never handled so this was a last chance atempt to get something going. So yes it may have been gone about the wrong way b/c you guys blew it out of perportion all it was.... was a way to try to solve a problem. but im sorry for sticking my nose in some where it dosnt belong and that is all i wanted to say........ Thank you for your time and please dont point fingers (ANYONE) and solve the problem not continue to fight it gets us nowhere...... Alah @~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maube Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 NOW we have lots signing up - but we do not have room for warriors. Rakdur was excluded for my raids and Peeta was told why as was he. If people would TALK TO ME in game I could get to know them. You do not ask a stranger to babysit your children - and that raid is like a child to me. I have nurtured it and worked my arse off to make it successful. We have a hard time getting people to post on our own forums - and I visit your forums regularly - I just dont post when i dont have anything to say. And Baracko is not even an Officer of the guild. He is a raid leader but not an officer. Might help to bring things up with the officers - I cant read minds and neither can any of my Elders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoginized Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 It just seems to be the fault of both guilds not hammering out the fine print/details about the alliance..... For one, TSF was never really told about the fact that we would not be raiding w/ you guys and that you would be spot fillers for our raids, and I think the same can be said for CSC members not knowing that they can sign up or contact us about raids. I personally think that both leaders need to sit down again and hammer this out once and for all before it gets worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maube Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 I stated from the beginning that our raids were already running on full - but classes in demand would be welcome to fill spots. I told peeta from day one - we would help them fill out your own raids with experienced personel. I posted the link to your page but I cant force anyone to keep in touch. We do not have trouble filling our raids with our own guild - we havent had that problem since we downed Geddon. Occasionally a regular cant make it and we pull a filler in. Usually a friend of someone that we know wont cause trouble. NEver did I say I would start up a raid for you - I said I would HELP - but I would not take the first step. Ingame is the best way to notify of things - unless it is a weekly occurance that folks mark on their own time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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