And I thought the Feral bait and switch from TBC was bad

[Oriahtundra]

Paladin

Glyph

Glyph of Crusader Strike - Reduces the mana cost of your Crusader Strike ability by 20%. (Old - Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your target is incapacitated or stunned.)

Skills

Holy

Seal of Wisdom now deal [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 1 ] holy damage when unleashed. (Down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ] Holy damage)

Seal of Light now has a chance to heal for [ 15% of AP + 15% of Spell Power ]. (Down from [ 28% of AP + 28% of Spell Power ])

Seal of Light now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 1 ] (down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ]) holy damage when unleashed.

Seal of Righteousness now grants each melee attack [ 2.2% of Melee Weapon Speed * AP + 4.4% of Melee Weapon Speed * Spell Power ] additional Holy damage. (Down from [ 2.8% of Melee Weapon Speed * AP + 5.5% of Melee Weapon Speed * Spell Power ])

Protection

Seal of Justice now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 1 ] holy damage when unleashed. (Down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ])

Retribution

Judgement of Command Holy damage reduced from 56% to 45%.

Blessing of Might (Rank 8 ) and Greater Blessing of Might (Rank 3) now increase AP by 306. (Up from 305)

Seal of Corruption now deals [ 15% of AP + 8.8% of Spell Power ] additional holy damage over 15 seconds. (Down from [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ])

Seal of Corruption now deals [ 14% of AP + 22% of Spell Power + 1 ] Holy damage. (Down from [ 17.5% of AP + 28% of Spell Power + 1 ])

Seal of the Martyr now make all your melee attacks deal [ 22% of mw ] to [ 22% of MW ]. (Down from [ 28% of mw ] to [ 28% of MW ])

Seal of the Martyr now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of mw ] to [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of MW ] Holy Damage when unleashed. (Old - [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of MW ] Holy damage)

Seal of Blood now make all your melee attacks deal [ 22% of mw ] to [ 22% of MW ]. (Down from [ 28% of mw ] to [ 28% of MW ])

Seal of Blood now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of mw ] to [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of MW ] Holy Damage when unleashed. (Old - [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of MW ] Holy damage)

Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 15% of AP + 8.8% of Spell Power ] additional Holy damage over 15 sec. (Down from [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ])

Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 14% of AP + 22% of Spell Power + 1 ] Holy damage. (Down from [ 17.5% of AP + 28% of Spell Power + 1 ])

Judgement of Wisdom now restores 1% of the attacker's maximum mana. (Down from 2%)

Judgement of Light now has a chance to heal the attacker for [ 10% of AP + 10% of Spell Power ]. (Down from [ 18% of AP + 18% of Spell Power ])

Talents

Retribution

Divine Storm doesn't deal Holy damage anymore. Now heals up to 3 party or raid members for 25% of the damage caused. (Up from 20%)

Righteous Vengeance changed to - When your Judgement and Divine Storm spells deal a critical strike, your target will take 8/16/24/32/40% additional damage over 8 sec.

The Art of War now increases the damage of Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm by 5/10%. (Old - Increased critical strike damage only, by 10/20%)

Judgement of the Wise now grants the paladin 15% of his base mana. (Down from 33%)

Seal of Command now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 24% of mw ] to [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 24% of MW ] Holy damage. (Down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 30% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 30% of MW ])

Most massive nerf in WoW history maybe?

[Holyssa]

To make matters more...interesting: rather than wait for the patch, much of the Ret changes got hotfixed in today on Live & Beta (supposeably):

By (that b@stard crab) Ghostcrawler:

We are going to hotfix the nerfs to Judgement of the Wise (from 33% to 15%) and Seal and Judgement of Command (down 20% damage) to live. We need to start getting more testing on these changes right away to see what they do to Retribution in PvE and PvP. We still intend to lower the damage of other Seals and Judgements (except one - see below), but to hotfix those requires touching a lot more data so we think that change can wait for the 3.0.3 patch on live.

We are also hotfixing the beta to return Seal and Judgement of Blood and the Martyr back up to 95% of where the used to be. Live will just never get the nerf to these abilities at all. Hopefully this will compensate PvE Retadins for relying less on more expensive AE abilities that risk putting them out of mana.

To summarize:

Live (3.0.2 build) -- Judgement of Wise change, Seal and Judgement of Command change.

Beta (3.0.3 build) -- All nerfs already active, but Blood and Martyr un-nerfed.

Next Live patch (to 3.0.3 build) -- Catches Live up to Beta. I can't give you an estimate for 3.0.3 on Live yet, but it will be before Lich King goes live on Nov 13.

[...]

As I posted in one thread, you should be able to use those core abilities (Divine Storm, a Judgement / Seal and Crusader Strike) without going OOM. Some players are finding that to be true, so please let us know if you aren't.

If you do add Consecration or healing, your mana should drop down lower. You're making a choice not to be sustainable in order to do something else.

Divine Plea should help offset that at 80. Some of the Int on your gear should help offset that for now.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Holyssa

[Kadi]

Most massive nerf in WoW history maybe?

Warning, incoming 'complaint'. If you don't like it, stop reading now (you know who you are)!

I don't know if it's the biggest, but to me, it's definitely the straw that breaks the camel's back. The sad thing is, that the changes, meant to nerf ret, also nerf Prot and Holy, who really didn't need it.

I was rather 'meh' about Holy before these changes. While it wasn't "bad", it was disconcerting to see everyone else get new spells to get a whole 'toolbox of healing' (HoTs, Group Heals, Single Heals), while Paladins were stuck only as Single Target (or limited 'dual target' with Beacon of Light), having to rely on a Glyph or a talent in the Ret Tree to get HoTs. The emphasis on making Healing paladins do judgements to get the most out of their specs also baffles me, as it burns the GCD and becomes 'clumsy' to switch targets, judge, and switch back to do a heal. And even then, it really only does any good if: a) you have a lot of melee on the boss for the teeny tiny little heals/mana regen you get b) you get a crit, since you don't get the haste buff without a judgement crit.

The recent feedback from the Devs on the state of Holy, even after the 'nerf' isn't encouraging. We've basically been told to "Well, MgT used to be pain, isn't it better now with Beacon?". Well yes, a little, now that only 2 other party members have to die in AoE fights instead of 3 (depending on the use of Beacon), but I can certainly do without the condescending attitude.

Granted, they SAY that they will compensate holy and prot if the Ret nerfs appear to be too much for them, but considering how badly done the holy tree is to begin with, and the fact that prot doesn't even have a 21 point talent, I'm not real encouraged by them fixing anything with paladins for the better any time soon.

*sigh*

[Muato]

All I have to say is...

478 Res (512 when idol procs)

15K health

20K armor

...and I *STILL* get 3-shotted by ret pally's. And they're nerfing rogues? wtf....