What happened with me at the Arena

[Rumblebore]

I came to Guildbashing Ready to become coordinator and to challenge a few people I wanted to whup on.  I brought the following expectations and background with me:

1) I came up with the original idea and posted it in open Discussions back in October.  In that Topic, we worked to fleshout the rules that would help define what we do and what we wont do. I need to mention that among the others who posted was Qque.  He helped to clarify things for me and to put my ideas into focus on the last set of rules I came up with that became the basis for Guildbashing.

And unfortunately, things happened that prevented me from leading Guildbashing. I tried to cancel it but Eldoran went ahead with it and people raved.  I thought I had contributed something great to the guild.  I was very glad and even proud of this.

2) The Kael raid on Saturday before, Lilor was MA and one of the things he said was something about some guild leaders being on a power trip.  That bugged me.  I wondered who he meant.  I resolved to watch myself and try to make sure I really am doing what was best for the guild and to make sure it follows what we as leaders agree to.  What bothered me was the way Lilor dropped calling the mob, especially since we are trying to get ourselves coordinated in a structured way in raids.  Consistency is essential to train peole in the manner of what works and to get the 'pattern' of raiding a mob down.  I sent eldy tells when it got bad and eventually Lilor began to come back around and call mobs.

3) I had to change the time because the guy who was going to take my place at an event in RL cancelled last night so I had to change the time to later.  I came in before 1:00 and felt rushed.

Okay - that is where I came from and brought to the event.

I got there and saw many already fighting - that was okay - the time changed and many might have been bored wait for an hour.  I tried to work out if duelling really doesnt make you lose XP (I never duel) and eventually had halluddar kill me off.  By that time I knew I needed to take charge and getthe ball rolling.  This was encouraged by a couple of tells and mention made in officer channel.

SO I started stating the rules AS I REPOSTED ON THE MESSAGEBOARD for this event and was shocked when Qque spoke up saying "Too many rules.  I will be leaving.  Lets just go."  At that point I was asking myself 'WTF - where is he coming from?' But he said it in the open channel.  No less that 6 other chimed in in agreement. and others continued to talk it up. At that point I was actually pissed at Qqur for not saying that in a tell to me.  People began to say 'lets just go, cmon lets go'.  I asked if they really didnt want any rules at the same time Qque posted that the people 'could be trusted' to play fair.

SO, in frustration, I let the event proceed without rules or the structure I had organized in the posted rules.  I continued to organize and make the challenges known and announced the.  I continued to lead.  I was challenged in tells and turned people down because I was sick of being there.  My fun and enjoyment had died.  

Over the next 90 minutes I settled into a pattern and was ready to try a challenge when everyone wanted a 5x5 challenge.  I suggested several ideas which were each ignored or turned down.

I gave a 5 minute warning about 10 minutes after several of us killed off a pet that was attacking someone on the other team.  At the buzzer to attack I was told to wait because that person hadn't made a pet because ' someone had kiled of his pet'.  I waited and asked if people were ready. The battle began 4 minutes later.

After one team won, I had an idea to random the groups, and to make teams based on that.  I was trying to implement it when people began to chime in they wanted the same teams. Frustrated again, but trying to work with them I asked if they wanted to do they same temas.  My questions were ignored as they kept making decisions about what to do on the fly.

I concluded that this event has passed from my hands and I was no longer in charge, the people were deciding what to do as they thought of it.  So I posted in Officers that someone else should take over that I was leaving the event and I left.

i saw how much people were enjoying things as they were and the more I released the reins of control into their hands the happier they became.  I mentioned to Leanessa that I no longer had any heart to remain there, I was only staying because I was leading the event.  Since I saw my leadership was not being needed nor recognized anymore, I left before I said something nasty and ruined the whole thing.

I consider this event my baby, and I worked hard to make the rules so that we could have this.  I was upset I couldnt be there the first time, and it was clear from early on today that that original event was what set the standard for Guildbashing.  That a fellow officer 'led the charge' (perhaps inadvertantly) to rebel against posted rules and having them explained to those who dont visit the boards that often (and we KNOW there are a lot of those people, don't we Qque?) really pissed me off. But I tried to go with the flow.  But the number of times I was ignored, overruled and outspoken in this evet burned me bad.

I will be away from EQ while I simmer down.  I truly feel betrayed and made useless.  I thought we were trying to work coordination into people and here was a FUN way to do it.

On one hand, perhaps I was trying to make it too organized.  I am like that. Although you wouldnt believe that of me if you saw my apartment.  

Guildbashing is no longer my baby.  She died today for me. What I want to see happen won't.  So I give her up to you others to run and play as you see fit.

That is why I left today.  My child died in my arms and I couldn't save her.

I understand that people were saying I said bad things about Druids.  As I told Leanessa, I NEVER said anything to anyone except what I said in Officers chat.  And I didnt say ANYTHING about any one person.  Until this posting here.

To Qque - bud, I understand where you were coming from.  But you had NO idea where I was coming from.  And what you said cut deep.  I kept it to myself and tried to run things.  But I couldnt get it back in time before I just had to leave.  let me heal up.  I'll be better for other things later. I do hop you had fun sir. I really do.

Take care all.  See you later this week.

[qque]

To you i exstend great apology.  That comment was not meant for open channel.  

  The guild bashing idea was a great idea and the people love it.  The only thing is all the rules.  You set up so many rules that it takes an hour to get through all the question and requestions frome guildies.  If you let the 2 dueling make there rules it goes alot faster and easier, you wont have to spend so much time babysitting and no one gets pissed for being singled out for breaking rules becaus "i forgot".  Most of the people there feel that if you can do it then do it (except dots.. they dont like the exp lose).  Your idea was a great one, just keep it simple and you will have the apportunity to enjoy it too. The idea is yours everyone knows it and loves it.

  As for lilor, let me tell ya from exp.  Lilor does not like to take orders from anyone.  I work with him and see it everyday.  He usually feels it his way or no way.  And why is he always main tank, he isnt the hiest tank nor the best equiped.  

    As for the cutting deep part... you will have ample oportunity to cut me deep at the next bash.

[Leanessa Sylverfoxx]

I will add that I was on a phone call when most of this was happening...I missed what was going on at the time....I didn't even know that Rum had left until it was too late...for that I apologize to you Rum...

And there was a lot of talk going on about what Rum had said...HEY GUYS....I re-read the script on my screen and Rum did not say anything other than what he has posted...and at that point I was getting upset also...and it was best for me to leave too....but we stayed for another round...  

I have to say tho that I was a tad disappointed...I went because I had missed the first bash and had heard that everyone had such a good time....I wanted to see for myself...

And what I did see was a lot of very disorganiation...if there aren't some rules....such as one fight at a time...who can buff....and what spells can or cannot be used then it is just going to be pure choas....

There might be too many rules...but there should be some rules...

As I sat there (even on the phone at the time) watching (cause no one would fight with me....roflmao) I saw the same things occurring in the bash that I see in raids...

NO ONE WANTS TO LISTEN...now my question is this...if guild bash is set up as a free for all...will it help to break the ice (an expression) in a raid???

Will a bash give the guildies a chance to unstress???  So that they can then concentrate on a raid...or just give them the impression that when we all get together that they can chat and joke and carry on no matter where we are or what we are doing???

I don't know about you all but I know that I am tired of hearing everyone (myself included) having to repeat the same instructions over and over again.  This is not fair to the leaders...and can be very disturbing not only to them but to those of us who are trying very hard to listen and find out just what our role is in this raid...

I know that if I am telling someone that a rez is incoming...I don't want to have to repeat it 10 times until I get an answer from that person...letting me know that he is going to be ready to hit yes on that window that pops up...if that window gets closed for some reason other than clicking the yes I accept this rez...then I can't recast that person a rez right away...they have to wait and usually the cleric has to wait and med for more mana to redo that rez..to me this is a waste of time and mana....I can rez up to 5 people on what mana I have if someone else is healing them when they pop in...which cuts down on CR times...but I am getting off track here....

Again....IF everyone would be on time or even in chat channel ...but paying attention to what is said then there would be a lot less questions...and a lot less aggrevation..on our leaders...

Sorry for the run on....

Leanessa Nobleheart

[Rumblebore]

Qque

Thank you for the apology.  I do appreciate that.

~~~~~

In a perfect world:

Guildies would come to the board and read the rules so that we wouldn't have to waste time repeating prior to combat.

The duelists would make their own criteria for the combat and implement it by asking for what they needed.

Leadership of such an event would be someone doing something more like announcing a horse race.  (And now they are neck and neck, ooops, the warrior lopped off the druids head.....)

Everyone attending would fight anybody and come away laughing.

People would listen to leadership and do what they ask when they ask it.

~~~~

However, we don't.  I tried to take that into consideration. Too many rules?  People not Listening!

Every game has its rules.  Even card games, board games, even with childrens made up games they assign some rules.  

Perhaps, the most basic rule is be ready to die when you either challenge or accept a challenge and be prepared to set up your own rules prior to the battle and implement them because no whining afterward will be accepted or acknowledged.  Intense whining (that wasn't fair) will be grounds for removal from the event.

Otherwise anything goes?  Lean makes a very good point. My position is this: Structure and organization is what people are wanting to see and are asking us for.  We need to give them that so that they know where the boundaries are.

There was a school in NY that had an open play yard right next to the streets.  The kids always lounged against the chain link fences that went right up to the sidewalks. Someone came along and cried that the kids were being restricted by the chain link fence and that was damaging to them.  So the school took down the fence.  Know what the kids did?  They moved into the middle and congregated.  Their boundaries were removed and they moved to the safest spot they could find. The middle - away from the open edges.

That is the nature of people - we all need some boundaries.  Within those boundaries we can move freely and happily.  Dont make them to confining or restricting, but they NEED to be there.

We lack a lot of that.

'nuff preaching.

[qque]

if i may rum, i have a few suggestions for your next bash.

 Let the dueliers set there own limits.  

   I for one feel that in a duel pretty much all is fair.  If you have a weapon in inventory better used than the one in your hand, whoop it out cause i am doing everything in my power to win. Let them set the own buff rules.  It will take alot off stress off you.

 Your event so you call the fighters to duel in.

     Keep it at one maybe 2 battles at a time.  The casters may need more room to fight due to ae than say a pair of tanks.  So maybe we could get a few tank duels at one time kinda like a 3 ring.

 When people start getting bored throw in a free fer all.

    If they are standing on the platform they are fair game no teams, brother vs brother, monkey kills uncle.

  i agree there does need to be some form of guidlines but not a book full.  I have always thought you made a good officer and are very good at planning.  I thik this is one of those events you should just let flow.  It is great for the moral.  I actually hear people in non guild groups brag about it.  makes me kinda proud to be there and witness it.

 These are just suggestions.

[Lotara]

OK here is my two cents worth.  We have a web site where we should set up Guild Events (on a calander) and talk about them in guild chat.  Times of events and any rules should be set up here also.  Anybody participating in that event should have been to the web site and asked questions before the event and in time to receive answers.

The people of the guild need to understand that if there is a time and place listed, they are to be at the meeting place by that time and know the rules that apply to that event.  If they cannot make it until later, they should let the leader know in private tell.

Some of these instructions/rules should be: Who is leader of the event, who is MA, who is puller, who is main Cleric, who are Looters, etc..  The approximate length of time of the event.  Can a player change players in the middle of the event and win extra loot/prizes?

This all comes back to using the internet guild web sites at least once per week if not more.  Look at Qques request for Mains/Alts.  Who has not answered.  They are the ones that are asking all of the questions before an events.

We have an envaluable communications tool in the web site if we will only use it and require all guild members to use it.  Even all of the officers do not use the officers channel.  Do they even look at it?

OK, back to the topic at hand: Rum you did a great job in trying circumstances.  The idea is a great one and everyone seemed to like the group bashes too.  And those definitely need prior rules.  And  you were right, the teams need to be changed so we all learn.  

The officers are the ones that need to say we will use the web site for information on guild events and follow though that all are looking at the site(s).  Changing Levels on their characters, updating their characters, etc.  The officers need to make sure that all officers are listed in the officer section and anyone over 47 is moved to the elders (or whatever it is called).  The officers need to make sure that new people are over 35 and we should set a min of 15 for alts and only allow 2 to 4 alts per main.  I prefer 2 alts per main.  That way, I feel, they will play their mains more.

The officers should back each other up.  The officers should start eliminating those players that do not follow instructions, either written on the guild web-site or verbal during events.

Did you know that Torzam is no longer in Guild?  He left after Saturdays Raid because of these same complaints.  Qque is unhappy.  Rum is unhappy.  Are we going to loose all of our good high end players because of younger players?  Where is this guild going?  How often must a player attend an event?  How many hours per month?   Why are they in a Guild if not to support it?

Regards, Tara and Zann

[Linaboom]

I think as officers we all need to remind people to go to the boards....maybe by saying in guild chat all those not currently group  should log and go visit the boards? or somthing like that  more so when we have a poll going for guild imput

...and on another note im sorry to hear the second guild bashing didnt go as well as the first.. i know i was watching the first one over Solteks shoulder nad saw alot of good coments from everyone.. one even said they hadnt had that much fun since they where a newbie

And I thank you Rumble for the great idea we know it was you and i look forward to more of your ideas for the guild you seem to be full of them (note i said them not IT )