What I want from a Guild

[Lotara]

This is a continuation of a topic in the Leaders Forum. I wanted to continue it here where everybody could see it and add their two cents worth. I have Lea's permission to move it here.

Zann starts this message:

I would like to add another aspect of this topic. I work and live in the High Desert of California and only have 2 real life friends that play EQ. There is not much going on in Mojave and so I play EQ after work and am active in my Church. I have had my characters PLed only a couple of times, other than than I have gained experience by playing the characters myself. I don't have people to talk to about what spells do what, I search the information out by myself. I join a guild for friendship and help. I have not been to a lot of zones because it is very hard to take a Cleric to a new zone after 30.

I don't want to be PLed, but I would like groups that cater to people that have not played in that zone before and give a brief overview of the zone, good places to hunt, and good places to stay away from. I would like to hunt with the group to get experience within that new zone. This is what I had hoped to get from a Guild. Then, as I get more experience, to go on higher level raids with more experience people helping me to understand my roles and reponsibilities. Lea has been wonderful on the Raids that I have gone on with her. McM has also shown me a lot of new zones. But that is about all. Since I am not on at the same time all the time do to a lot of unscheduled overtime at work, it is hard to get in a consistant group. Now I am scared to even try because I often times end up dying because of stupid acts by people in the group all trying to pull something. Not understanding that only one or two people should pull and those should be coordinated. If multi mobs are pulled, they should die instead of bring them back to kill the group.

How do I get envolved in the guild? I would like to see a monthly calendar with groups put on it by anybody in the guild looking for groups, as well as Guild Raids, I like to plan where I am going, when I am going, etc before I get on line with any maps that I need. I like organization within groups or raides that shows that some thought has gone into where we are going and why and what to watch out for. I want a high probablity that the group/raid will be a success (loot, experience, etc.). Am I asking too much from a guild?

Lea's answer:

/agree with the fact that I like to also plan on what I need to accomplish in the time that I get to play...and there are a lot of times that I don't actually plan anything....but I sit and check to see what the guild is up to...what is being discussed....chat with other officers and see what has gone on that I missed... Basically trying to keep informed so that I can help out where I am better qualified to do so...

At this posting...Lea has just less than 7 blues to make level 58....which in the long run will help more since I get new spells..such as Antidote, Blessed Armor of the Risen, enforced Reverence, Ethereal Light, Hammer of Divinity, Naltrons Mark...and hopefully will be on the way to 59 and 60 much quicker than I have made these last 3 levels....

I ran into the old leader of Battalion yesterday....was sort of depressing...he reminded me that it has been a year since he was trying to get me to join Battalion and that I was 57 then....( I corrected him that I was 56 then) but another group member said something also...That the reason that I am still 57 is because I die for everyone...so this comment has made me stop to think a tad about this leveling...

Now I am asking myself if staying in a zone that I know fairly well will be safer and more sure exp...even if it takes longer to get that exp....or if I should go to new zones that have better exp...which means more dying...more cr's.....more of having a group member come to take me by the hand and show me back to the corpse or camp site....and more debating on whether or not the exp will equal out the lost of exp when I die....

So please...I would like some input on this....what do you all think???

Lea

Zan answered:

Your last paragraph really hit me between the eyes, because I am in the same spot (only a few levels lower).

"Now I am asking myself if staying in a zone that I know fairly well will be safer and more sure exp...even if it takes longer to get that exp....or if I should go to new zones that have better exp...which means more dying...more cr's.....more of having a group member come to take me by the hand and show me back to the corpse or camp site....and more debating on whether or not the exp will equal out the lost of exp when I die...."

This is where I am too. I can group with a few friends who will do their best to keep me alive in a slow and steady zone, or I can go with a group of guys who are out to get the loot and exp and don't mind dying. I hate dying, I fight it with every heal I cast in the game. So you can imagine which I would choose. It is more so now that I am over 50 and experience is soooo hard to get.

Maybe another solution is that raids are better planned, and the guild get a "Keep Healers (and group) Alive" philosophy.

How many of our players know how to shut down a bad situation so that the Cleric (Rezzers) camp before they get killed? This is so they can go to another character to find out when it is safe to return to the zone and start Rezzing. This is when Monks are great, they can FD and watch what is going on at the scene and let the cleric know when to come back. And the Monk is there to protect the Cleric as he/she Rezzes and Heals the Tanks and the rest of the team.

How many characters know that when the Cleric is healing 4 people most of the time, you will all die? It is far better to have a Main Tank and everybody else back off and use lesser spells or lesser weapons so they don't take agro and there is only one or two people getting healed. If the healers have KEI they can usually keep the group healed through continual pulls.

How many players ask about Mana Status and listen to their Clerics when they reply? I know that most clerics are conservatives and a little pushing is good, but when they say they need to med, listen to them.

The whole key to great experience is for the group to take what they can handle consistantly and steadily. Whether that is with Dark Blue mobs or Red mobs. DB pulled consistantly will give more experience than Red if you die and have to take that time for Rezzes. It is the experience over time (like an hour) that is most important, not the number of kills.

Well, I feel much better getting those few choosen word out in the open. Clerics die inside each time one of you die. It is what makes us great Clerics. Please do not add to our internal torment with your carelessness. That is why so few clerics are played at the higher levels.

Regards, Zannette

Lea Answers:

When I first started this game...one of the first rules to it was....PROTECT THE CLERIC AT ALL COST....I have noticed that this has changed...now it seems that it is more beat on the mobs but let the cleric fend for themselves...

I would like to point out that if that cleric is getting beat on...Well....your SOL....cause the cleric can't cast while getting beat on, stunned, or just moving out of the way of the mob (hoping that someone has either rooted or mezzed the mob). I was grouped the other day in KC with a bard and an enchanter....hmmmm why did I die twice???

On a raid, if you are going to be able to keep the clerics alive long enough to camp out....someone is going to have to keep the agro off the cleric. My suggestion to this is to have a warrior that doesn't jump right in when the Assist is called....but to hold back until they see how the situation is going....if it looks like things are going ok then by all means ...join in on the fun of beating on the mob....but if it looks like things might go towards a CR....then wait and get the agro so the cleric can camp out...

In most circumstances I can get a Celestial Heal (heal over time) off on that tank before I sit to camp....this way he has agro and is getting healed enough to give me time to camp...preferably a pally...this way he can LoH (Lay of Hand) on himself (herself) after the Celestial Heal starts wearing off....

This may not work with multiple mobs...unless someone has rooted or mez'ed them...but it will increase the time for a cleric to get camped out...

Just my 2 cp's worth...and a suggestion for easier and quicker CR's ...

Lea

And this has Lotara's byline because I forgot to change characters. Each is on different accounts. What do you all in the guild think?

Regards,

Lotara (Tara) Bard of 42 Songs

Zannette (Zann) Cleric of 50 Seasons

[Leanessa Sylverfoxx]

7 (count them) seven people have read this since Zan put it here....and not one person has voiced their opinion?

This is making me wonder why did we even post it....I asked for opinions.

In my opinion this is the way the guild is going....ask in guild for something (other than items) and this is basically the type of response that people are getting....

Or am I wrong???

Leanessa Nobleheart

[aaeodar]

I read the Post a few time . and i can agree with alot of the stuff posted .the things iv seen grouping Clerics dont get the Protection they need . when i 1st started playing the game i played a war . and when i would group only thing on my mind was to protect the casters and the Cleric most of all . and to this Day even tho im a druid ill try my best to keep the cleric outa harms way like Zann said ....PROTECT THE CLERIC AT ALL COST.... and ill do my best with my druid and with My War (when i play him that is) . the way i feel is if im going into a new zone and the cleric is new to the zone as well i must make the cleric feel safe at all times even if it will cost me a death in the game . Exp i can alway get back either with a rez or just playing harder . thats my out look

[Nurlaten]

I've read this and agree with the majority of the information posted.

Something i think will help with the raid situation, (which was brought up at a meeting earlier) is for someone in each class to right raid do's and dont's/ general strategies. This guild is inexperienced in upper level raid situations as most of us haven't been on many. I know on my first raid i went on with slot to kael, i found a higher level druid and asked him questions regarding everything going on; Dot's vers nukes, when to snare, etc etc... This helped me a lot and if any druids feel like asking me questions on a raid or anyother situation, feel free. (If an officer wants me to write a druid do's/don'ts for raids, i'll do it, just keep in mind i personally don't know all that much)

The thing about clerics dying is if they gain agro, we all die, unless we can get someone camped out. I said on the meeting on jan 24:

Fri Jan 24 20:13:09 2003] Nurlaten tells tunare1:1, 'The major raids are all about 1 thing and 1 thing only, keeping agro on the main tank and everyone else doing as much damage without taking agro, simple concept, not easily put into practice'

Overagro is a major problem and to be completly honest if i as a druid gain agro, a cleric allowing me to die and rezzing after the fight is better than getting agro yourself from over-healing. This is the kind of attitude that everyone needs to have. There are notable exceptions, slowers almost always get agro, but if a secondary healer should be set-up earlier to take care of them, that should not be the clerics problem.

*EDIT*

Reread your post and decided to add,

If you are looking to explore new zones, ie pop tier one zones, look for shawdar, his knowledge of campsites and what to do/pull etc is astounding, plus he's a pretty good shaman. He's also very understanding about people not knowing much about it, all in all, he's great to group with.

Hopefully as lean said, we can get more peoples opinions on this topic.

[mcmichael]

have read this post a couple times,both in officers and here....i aggree i aggree i aggree.the biggest thing to learning what to do is to as questions of the ppl who have been to the zone before,whether it is a person of your class or not,that person(hopefully)has more information than you do on the zone,be able to give you the in's and out's,this being the case yoiu should LISTEN to the person and follow instructions.the cleric is the heart of a good group(if the cleric dies,the group dies).if the cleric dies,then rezzes take longer,cr's are much more difficult than an onsite rez.if you are not MA,don't take aggro,let MA take the aggro(ie don't taunt,choose your weps to best suite the situation,slower weps,2 h'ers etc.). casters hold their nukes till MA definitely has aggro(some say at 50%,others say it is higher,guess it depends on the mob).2 classes i see get aggro the most,which seems almost impossible to avoid,shaman(slows,cripples) and chantere(broken mezzes,slows,cripples and what ever else the class does,i don't get to group with them enough to know all of their abilities) it is my thought that a war,depending on the situation(1 large add),SA should take the mob and hold till MA and others can defeat their foe and assist on the second mob,keep in mind that in a fighting situations rules per say,cannot be followed to a T,that you must be able to think on your feet,follow instructions,but that all comes with the understanding that is gained by experience.everytime i think i have gained alot of knowledge,something happens to show me that i have ALOT more to learn,but i continue to ask questions hoping that in time someone will ask me so i can help them with what i have learned.quite the ramble,hope it all pertains to the post(i don't feel like going back and reading it all,i usually decide that i either sound like an idiot or that i sound like i know it all)

[Krung]

Aha Topic I can reply to and sound like I am making sense. (plus add a little bit more to the pot) Well its time i guess. I have been reading alot of posts for the last hour or so and all I hear is Raid raid raid. This is not a big deal for me. When I voted I voted for a guild that groups for exp and MAYBE a few high lvl raids. I am more of the Family type person. Heck I remember not too long ago when Krung and Zann and Lotara went to Echo and took on almost the whole cavern by themselves. I mean we were actually asking people if we could take mobs from their camp. We took on Fireclaw (the three of us) and didnt suffer at all. I miss that. I miss Mcm and us hanging out. It was just a few of us. I am not a Formal Raid type person. I play In Character. and that is impossible to do on a Formal Raid. Not with Krung anyway. He is an Ogre Warrior he doesnt back off he doesnt stay behind and let someone else do the fighting he likes to stand Toe to Toe with the monster until either he or it dies. Oh and he doesnt do orders very well either. Just point him and release. Thats it. dont expect finess. As to keeping the CLerics alive? Its what I live for. If you dont believe me ask any cleric that has grouped with me. Zann? WHat do you think? I remember Grouping with Rosaly in RM and it was just us two. I agroed two giants and died keeping it off of her as she ran to the zone. I then continued talking to her (from the nexus) since she was new to the zone. I guided her through chat all the way to the zone and then back again and she rezzed me. You know what? I enjoyed every second of it. Yes even the dieing. I am currently working on a Wizard ( I know the guild needs them) Thats why I am lvling him honestly. Krung is out of the picture though. No one appreciates him anymore since you have become a "HIGH LVL RAIDING GUILD" I dont want that for my EQ Experience. I enjoy the Family atmosphere. I like sitting down and Talking for an hour if I decide I dont want to pull right now. Zann? LOL Rosaly? You both know I am that way. I miss that. I miss my friends and I miss my Family. My wife and I group together now. Anyone is welcome to join us anytime you want. You know who we are. Anyway, I just wanted to say I miss my friends. (trying not to cry right now) I miss the family atmosphere that brought us all together. Rebma and I are seriously deciding on wether or not to remove ourselves. Is SLoT going to be Pure raid? or is there room for a few people that just want to hang out and be friendly? Let me know, we dont want to get in the way. Whatever you decide know this is not easy for me. I have come to appreciate alot of you.

Krung Bignbad (Synthania too)

[Svinter]

Maybe we could have a relaxed raid atmosphere. Hanging out as a family (most of the guild there). Talking to each other, goofing off, but maybe still be able to push forward in the zone. I love grouping and screwing around, but I also like the thrill of taking a mob liike 20 lvls higher then me with my friends. LOVE the planes, especially with just one group, more for me . I think that like 3 raids a week won't be able to happen, I'd say maybe a Wednesday one (pillaging, burning towns, getting epics, more serious) and a Saturday one (the relaxing, end of the week, fun raid, just murdering all we see) and here and there a big mob raid. Any ideas about this? I'm just making it up as I go along. I like raids, but I don't want us to become some of the stuck up morons in the uber guilds (ever see FoH's or Afterlife's webpages? Talk about dumb "Well, killed the Sleeper again today, nothing special"). I'm out of cp so that's my 2 sp, consider yourself lucky

[Lolanya1]

Can I just say I'm somewhat amazed?

I play a high-level Cleric in high-end sitautions (Killed Vindi, Sontalak, and the 6 other dragons outside ToV last night in about 2 hours of work including travel and setup time). Perhaps having more than 2 epic'd clerics in a raid (we had 6 yesterday) makes this banter seem strange. All I know is that few classes are unimportant to a raid, or, in a microcosm, a single group. Each class is important and all should be protected. In my day-to-day exping, I have noticed that if the MT goes down, the fight goes on. If the Wizard or Necro or Mage goes down, the fight goes on. If the Bard or Chanter or Necro goes down, the fight continues. If the Shaman or Cleric or Druid goes down, the fight continues. However, if two of these in two different categories goes down, it may be time to evac, camp, gate, succor, zone, fd, etc..

Save the Cleric? You're just pulling my leg, right? Save the MT? HA! Save the chanter? Please!

A group with 6 healers can't kill much in PoP. A group with 6 melee's can't either. 6 casters? I've rezzed em. Hybrids? No. Takes a whole group to make it in higher zones, everyone must know what to do (i.e. no EBay'ers).

Lean - Go to new zones. Die alot. Learn alot. Exp alot. Loot alot. And for Heaven's sake get out of KC!

Baldy

[Rumblebore]

Okay,

Verant has recently added a function we can put to use.

It is called /shield

It allows the one using the command to take damage being inflicted on another.

So, we add a hot key, specifically, a high HP/AC (mele type) adds a hotkey with /shield (cleric Name) so long as the cleric and melee are in same group. We can try this and when the cleric is being hit upon, the melee hits the hotkey and helps the cleric to last longer untill aggro can be taken away from cleric.

[Lotara]

Rumblebore, thanks for bringing this /shield command to my attention and to the rest of the guild. I did not know about it. It is great.

Tara and Zann

[mcmichael]

to my knowledge,/shield is war only,but myself and sherm are using it that i know of,i usually don't use /sheild ------,but a /shield %t so that i can use it for many ppl,as was said earlier,there ARE other important classes in group/raid,the reuse time on /shield is fairly short,(3 min i think).if needed,maybe a /shield rotation can be set up....but to my xp,if it is needed more than once or twice,it seems recovery from situation is low..........

[mcmichael]

P.S. /shield lasts 12 seconds,allows war to take 75% dmg to save target 50% dmg

[mcmichael]

P.P.S. you are able to shield any player,in group or not....

[Lolanya1]

yesterday while beating up a stoneleer cockatrice in OT, a kunark rhino used /shield to delay my killing of the bird for a short duration

if the rhino's can use it...

[Hinil]

Sorry about not posting before, normally I check the site with very little time to do so, then when I have more time I am in game. I am always willing to help anyone in anyway irregardless of the cost to me personally. If anyone in guild needs help and there is a way I can do I will do it, if you want to explore I will find what I can and do it with you, if I can't find anything then we can go and try the entrance. As towards grouping I am a shaman and I get aggro a lot of times in high level groups, I will take the aggro until it is gone and then do whatever I can to make sure we all live and the mob dies. When it comes to me dying versus ANY other group member I would rather me die then them, the experience doesnt matter I am here to have fun and enjoy my friendship with my guildmates, I can get xp back later.

When I grp with clerics my main concern is the cleric because clerics keep me alive to fight again, but as stated if someone has to die I prefer it to be me before any other.

[Krung]

/agree Hinil Hate watching others die Krung would rather die himself.

[Leanessa Sylverfoxx]

Well not in KC...but basically not in any certain zone....I will go to any place that a group wants to go to...if I can....

[Valetorix]

I'm on a roll now...

I for one will team with anyone anywhere and really try to embrace whats fun with eq. As a warrior and one who's ALWAYS teaming up with at least one other melee (who looks like a power ranger), Ive always learned that aggro either stays on me or I desperately try to get aggro back and any caster-druid/evacing/cleric types have to be saved over me. I couldnt tell you how many times Ive died for the cause Its what eqs all about! Warriors are meant to die if need be, its part ouf our mentalite (damn these boards not allowing french accents). Anyhow, I dont know how much this post makes sense but Im still trying to get over that whole Star Jones thing (see raid msg)...

Anyhow, if anyones looking for friendly groups and such as stated as some of the goals, I hope to embody some of that. Its a shame that vote was closed by the time I joined

Ciao,

Valetorix "Dave, my mind is going, I can feel it" Lyonsbane

Warizzle of the 51st Amendment of the US Constitution