Things I am concerned about

[Rumblebore]

Firstly, Congratulations to Nurlaten for setting up and running the raid. Well Done sir.

And now.........

I am sad. Maybe being sick helps that but here are issues I do not like seeing. Also, this was my first time in the Hole.

1) Communication: The raid sign up was great, people came who said they would, and prior to zone in, communication was pretty good. I missed out on where the entrance to the Hole is (aside from the jump in point) and I need to get used to using the maps more.

Also, I disconnected 3 times last night so maybe I missed out on a few things.

The communication about detail was pretty bad. examples: It was asked several times who the MA was. Jaqs (an officer) finally said he is. Less than 30 mins later, Eldy was saying (and shouted once) HE was MA. That was obvious from the 20 mins of having both Jaqs and Eldy call on multiple mobs. That created confusion and I was disappointed to see it. I CAN see how a Monk puller is essential in this zone. Details like this need to be worked out ahead of time.

example 2 - Goals. I believe stating our goals clearly at the beginning would have been better. By the time we got to the Wretched, too many people were asking - what is next???. Having a goal and knowing our part to play is essential. The leaders seemed to know what to do, but sometimes, explaning to the troops makes things move faster and easier.

example 3 - calling mobs. Okay, this is not meant to target JUST the MA's, but is essentially a critique of what is obvious to me. SEVERAL times we got 4-5 mobs, had about 3 of them down and then another wave broke over us. The Chanters did SUPERBLY last night. but the oldest mezzed mobs needed to be taken down sooner. Sure the Rock Golems were pains. But having to burn mana on oldest mobs over and over and over again made the chanters work too hard. That they did so well is a credit to them. We need better communication from chanters to MA's which mobs are going to frop mez so they can be dealt with sooner.

example 4 - Members wanting to join late. (The worst moment I recall in a long time) In Kael, we made every effort to help stragglers coming in late, with the understanding that they would make a suicide run and be rezzed, or else we would clear the path for them. Maybe summoning people in was the chosen means of bringing these late arrivals in to the Hole, but it seeme to me other means like invising as far as they could go and fighting back a bit could be seen as being in order. My understanding was there was almost 6 players wanting to come. But apparently, when they asked, No one spoke up and said "For this raid, we cannot go backwards - there will be other Hole raids - I am sorry but we cannot help you come in." or something to that effect. Whatever may have been said ( I did disconnect 3 times) was obviously not clear enough. Galdins leaving was a last straw kind of thing; he had several issues with things in guild. And Katsilverfoot was told by Eldy she may as well leave too, at least that is how she phrased it. Galdin had come all the way to the entrance and then was told he could not join us. That is WRONG. He should have been told right up front. He was told he was welcome to come and then he was told he couldnt come. This was a bad moment and I understand his anger at the miscommunication.

2) The Raid Guild in the MOTD by Eldoran. In this MOTD Eldoran stated to the effect that failure to attend raids in the future will count as grounds for Guild-Removal. I am sorry but that sounds police-statish. It essentially says that You if you are a SLOT member, then you will be at raids. Period. When I created the Poll back in December I allowed for the fact that the feel of the guild could would change the closer to UBER Guild you voted. But this rule of Eldorans goes beyond what I was thinking. I am of the opinion that people can be in this guild but not raid. They may be people who are just proud of wearing SLoTs name. Take Maga for example. She never raids with us, but Maga is as much a SLoT as anyone I know. Her playing is very sporadic, but I wouldn't think of disbanding her. I know others have considered it. I recall her helping Rumble many times. I am tryng to keep RL balanced with this GAME. It is a Game you know. SO what happens if I cannot attend 2 out of every 3 Raids? Is that a cause to be Removed? Maybe it is. Maybe not. But the Rule as stated in the MOTD sounds like it is a real probability. What about people who cannot make a raid because of the time it is held, like Galdin and the others who came online after we had started? Does his inability to get to us in the raid count as a reason to Remove him? Does his RL events mean that he cannot be a SLoT because it interferes with his ability to attend raids? Or anyones? There HAS to be some flexibility here.

In my opinion, this rule is too harsh and should not exist as stated.

The Poll showed people want to be raiding, but the actual majority of people wanted a Raiding Guild more than Uberness. The weight of the replies to the poll were upon raiding more than Uberness, by a slight margin. Most want Raiding - but some want Uberness. This is a Game - where people can help each other and have fun. Making it a rule of membership that you MUST raid changes this to something like a Military Unit or a Pro-Football Team. The players are paid to play and live out the game during the Season. The Game is everything because it is their livelihood. EQ is NOT our livelihood. I am so glad I stepped away and got sick. It replentishes and reminds for me what is important. The People. The Players. Each is different and brings strengths and weaknesses to the guild. But by combining and honing the strengths, and not using the weaknesses, we can make us stronger for raiding. Let Uber happen later. For now, lets grow up a bit at a time. Stop trying to make us UBER now. Lets spend the next months through this year improving or chars, getting epics, learning not only how to raid well together, but also to be a family and supportive. If the Raid will be closed to additional players after we enter the Zone, then STATE it in ADVANCE.

Although Lux et Veritas is disbanded as a Guild, here is what they had as a rule about how to treat each other:

::Individual rights:: Every member of the guild has a right to play the game as they desire. Those who do not enjoy raids or events but are proud of the Guild Tag are welcome. Every member will respect the other members right to play as they desire and not create verbal tension. Those who chose not to participate in raids understand that they will not be included in many possibilities such as Epics until they participate as described above.

We lost at least 2 players last night due to this issue. Good Players, supportive players. I think we are diminished by that.

The goal is not to get rid of people, but to train and guide players into becoming part of a greater whole, making us stronger, but allowing that some peoples playtime is different than most of ours and may not be able. Sometimes there will be people who must go. But those that left last night weaken us. This is a pattern that I have seen in the past.

Whatever is wrong and makes this happen, needs to be addressed more than seeking being a raiding guild.

I am sad.

I want us to grow and improve. But I want to see that among the people we HAVE as well as those who will join.

[Wallorn]

Wow!! I didn't notice these issues before Rummy and was only told about the MOTD not actually read it think it was posted after I was online. All I can say is everything you said was right as far as I am concerned except for one issue. The Hole was set up for shammy epic intially by me and Nurl however we wanted it to flow. In other words it is my fault for not stating up front what was happening but in fairness i planned it this way. I wanted any classes who came that had epic drops in there to get them so the raid itself became static and we hit each epic on the way and I believe in this instance that this made for a great raid because instead of going for one we got 4 almost 5 (dont know what happened there?) epic drops. Sorry for this confusion but Chardok will be set up in the future by Nurl and I and I wish it to be static as well since many epic drops are there and we should just move from one to the other.

Now as for all else you mentioned, Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Sometimes I am oblivious and am sorry for that hehe. You have great points all.

Best Regards,

Wallorn

[Nurlaten]

The communication thing and not knowing what can be going on can all be pointed at me, this was my second raid i've ever ran and still have quite a bit of learning to do. Also not stating the MA and SA can be atributed to my lack of experience, i've learned a lot the last few raids and can only learn more if you point out my mistakes.

On the goals, this was wally's raid, he just asked me to help. I asked eldy to lead us to the mobs as i hadn't been there before. This was a joint effort and personally didn't know what the plan was. I think we got most of what we wanted, shame we didn't get to the scalekeeper, we were pretty close. Having been to the hole and knowing what i know now, i think i can post better goals and lead a better raid there. I really am a novice when it comes to raids, i can apologize for it not being perfect, but i hope you don't expect it to be perfect.

The chanters did a wonderful job, zymmit in particular, i've been very impressed with zymm whenever i group or raid with him. He is a wonderful addition to the guild. He does need to speak up and tell the MA what to do though, i'll try to remember to tell him that.

Now to the late members thing, i told jammun in tells 10 mins before galdin left to tell everyone that they would be unable to make it down to us. Twice; once in guild, once in the raid channel i told everyone that we weren't going back and couldn't get them. The only way we could have got more people was with a 55+ mage and we didn't have one there. Unfortunatly people tend not to listen to me because i haven't led many raids or been an officer for long. Galdin didn't listen to me ever, he and i didn't see eye to eye in our original guild (DE), but i still respected him enough to join TKO (although pretty late) mainly because of all my old DE friends. It's a shame to see him go, but there was a lot that went into his leaving prior to last night and i really wouldn't contribute not being able to come to his leaving, it just happened at the same time.

As far as the roster cleaning up, this has been in the work from what i've been reading for quite some time. It's a shame to see people forced out, but if they aren't contributing and asking for help, what else can we do? Example, while in the hole last night garettjax asked to leave saying he had stuff to do, i checked he never logged, just went and did his own thing for 3 hours while the rest of us were in the hole, (i talked with mcmike, he noticed the same thing), garett is now asking about going to hate to get his epic book. That kind of action doesn't sit well with me, those are the people that i think we should be trying to get rid of, not those that enjoy the atmosphere of slot. I don't think slot should force people out, they just shouldn't get the benefits that slot's raid produce.

And this concludes a monster post, i hope no one fell asleep reading it.

[mcmichael]

tension leads to tension....and as much as i like both galdin and makkuni...they both created tension,intentionally or not...i am sad to see them leave also...i consider both friends...

when galdin and co asked about coming as i undestood it,we were at a place that was accessable,but by the time they arrived,we had moved on....this being a sunday night and most ppl have either work or school monday morning...well we couldn't really hold the raid up any further(from my point of veiw).i had sent galdin a tell saying i thought we were in too far,i had given him a loc...i am disappointed that someone could not come right out and say that we were in too far...i was a participant in this,not a leader of the raid,so it was not my call as to whether or not to lead back or even give a definite answer to galdin....besides,galdin was not looking for me to answer a question...he was looking for shawdar or eldy to answer it...any answer i could have given would not have satisfied him.

confusion in the raid.....raid leadr>group leader>group,questoins should go from group>group leader>raid leader.

MOTD i agree totally with you rumble...i don't know,but i think that eldy overstated and used too harsh of words in motd for what he was trying to say....i may be very mistaken in that...he may have said exactly what he meant...i don't know...if that is the case...i am not happy with the idea either.

[Rumblebore]

Ok,

Lots of things I didn't know about.

Nurl, you did great for a firat time raid. Do not whip yourself (too much - heh) for that. My first raids were less than great. Man I recall those days.

I didnt know this was a joint leadership event, and I did pick up that Shammies needed this raid too. The Hole tends to have a lot of Epic mobs in it (studying up on the zone taught me this) but I didn't know we were after Ranger epics too.

That Eldy was co-leading I kinda figured out as things went along. I would have like to have seen it stated more clearly that " For this Raid, Nurlaten is Leading, and Eldy is co-leader". This should be made clear on future raids so people know who is co-ordinating things. Something for the future.

That Makkuni and Galdin sometimes created tension is true, and I have known this was a potential problem ever since TKO came on. Once you lead something for a while, it is always hard to take a subordinate role. Overall - I think Galding did very well ith this, but he made one point that I tend to agree with. This guild is as much my guild as it is Eldys, or Galdins, or Dylanii's , or Saite's, etc. What this guild becomes will be in part because I contribute to its shaping and forming and growth. That is why I always try to find the good potential in people, until it is clear they are not the type of person/player I want in my guild, then I speak up and point fingers. But we all have things we need to learn and unlearn to make this a strong family raiding guild.

Nurlaten points out he spoke to the others in tells - That IS the right way to do things, so I apologize to Nurl if I came across to harsh on him by what I said. Thank you Nurl for sharing that. Good leadership practice there.

I guess keeping other officers informed in the officer chat is what I would ask for, even if you think the info is trivial. I for one have all my battle spam in a totally separate window from all the communication text(Raid, group, guild, officers, channels, etc.), that way I rarely miss a tell (yah, right) or a comment and can easily scroll back up to see what I may have missed.

Overall, thank you for your clarifications. More food for thought.

[Eldoran Nobleheart]

ok let me state a few things here it was a jumbled mess at the beginning but thats cause i was getting to a wall at every turn when we got there i was the ma yet jaqs kept calling for an assist so i finally just let jaqs call em. As for telling people they would attend raids or get booted, its not a rule i was just trying to get as many people there as posible and i believe that it worked. Now we had a great turnout and I believe had a awesome raid, in which we got two ranger epic drops a pally epic drop and a shammy epic drop in only a few hours with only a few casualtys.