Sannio on Bard Training

[Winter Wind]

Found on stratics at:

this link, the news page,On the UO Bard Forum, Sannio (Online Content Coordinator) explains why certain ways of practicing barding might be illegal.”

Hi, everyone. I wanted to throw in some cautions about some of the training techniques being talked about here.

Before I go on, as I've said before, the Game Master on the scene is the one who makes the final call. I'm not the one making policy for them, but I *can* give you some clarifications on what might happen if a GM wandered by as certain activities were occurring.

So: training in your barding skills in your house is fine. You can train them anywhere you like, and working your skills in your house is not inappropriate. A GM was quoted elsewhere in this thread as stating it is allowed for players to provoke 2 creatures against one another in your house, and that you need to personally be there during the training. This is all true in general.

I can't tell if the GM knew of the more specific scenario of "bears behind a fence," so I'm going to try to expand on his reply. The creature you are attacking, or using to attack for you, needs to be able to defend itself by having the possibility of attacking you. In the case of the bears, if you failed your provo and the bear decided you looked like someone who should be eaten, it sounds like the bears had no chance of escaping the fence to attack the provoker. In this case, the "creature behind the fence" technique would be unacceptable. If the creatures were dragons instead of bears, that would be a bit different since dragons can fire off spells without the fence being such a, well, exploitable game mechanic. This situation could become dramatically more acceptable if the bears weren't really blocked in and trapped--as long as they have a reasonable chance to retaliate, then things will be more acceptable.

Monster blocking is not simply a matter of enclosing the victim within a circle of crates or using "the boat trick" (both also inappropriate "techniques"). We might now include a fenced-in "animal pen" from a custom house as a "monster blocker technique," depending upon the actual design, of course. Again, it would always be up to the GM on the scene to make the call, as he or she examines the exact situation at hand.

and…

Q: I'm curious as to why bards are required to be "in danger" or attackable just to train skills. I could go train a 7xgm mage in no time without ever risking harm, and with all 100% legal training methods.

A: Truthfully, it's the technique that's I'm discussing--penning in the creatures (ex. the bears) without any possible retaliation scenario--and not so much the specific skills. You could easily substitute magery or archery based attacks for a barding-based tact and the same concerns would still come up. In this way, the concerns we might have against the stated technique are not bard-specific.

Q: How about 'skeletons behind a fence' of Yew graveyard? Provoking two skeletons from the northern end of the graveyard considered as an exploit?

A: This situation has the advantage of you at least being in a danger zone, as opposed to the 100% no-threat scenario of combat involving penned in creatures within the added safety of your own house (or boat, for that matter). Fighting skeletons in a graveyard may be more acceptable, but I don't want to start diving into a number of specific hypotheticals. The game is far too complex for me to try to detail out every acceptable, unacceptable, or exceptional technique for every combat situation. I can suggest guidelines to help you stay involved in the game in a more productive manner, but it would be up to the GM on the scene to assess the situation and make the call, if such a call needs to be made.

Q: So does this mean that the boat trick is acceptable as long as one is getting hit with spells and firebreath from time to time?

A: If you attack a monster from the "safety" of your boat, and the opportunity exists for it to attack back (such as with spells or firebreath), then this general situation is acceptable.

Q: Well, I don't know about others, but I know that I made a post months ago in a thread on the official uo.com Bard Board where someone described in detail what you call "the boat trick"... I asked for an official statement concerning this blocking method... I provided links with quotes of official OSI statements on blocking and I also sent a PM to the person whom I thought would be able to at least let me know if I am on a completely wrong track... But alas - although the PM got received and I am sure that officials read this board on a regular basis nothing happened...

A: The OSI staff didn't often frequent the "focus forums," such as the Bard Board you mentioned, so perhaps that is why the boat trick wasn't discussed by us there. However, I have addressed the boat trick on several occasions within the past year--on the MyUO boards, as board PMs, via e-mails, and as Game Wizard responses. It may not have been an issue that came up a lot, but it did come up several times in public forums. The "penned in creatures" technique isn't so much different from the boat trick, which is partly why I wanted to mention all that I have in this thread.

Be that as it may, you mentioned a "dragon trick." If you get the time, would you be able to send details on that to us at uobugs@uo.com, please? That'll help the QA team coordinate any related info that may help us eventually eliminate such exploitive tricks.

Thanks for all your comments, by the way.

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Jean-Luc, I like your thinking. You have a healthy caution against using something that even seems like an exploit, and I applaud you efforts to play the game as it's intended more than how to find and exploit little tricks.

My response may have been over-general with that last response, so I'll try to clarify further for everyone.

I recently expanded on this same scenario in this way: Blocking monsters is inappropriate mostly because you can attack the monster in such a way that you're never, ever at risk. If the monsters just happened to be on boats or in a house, that's not specifically wrong, as long as the risk and potential for harm still exist.

Shooting at a bear which is on a boat means the bear will take damage and you will never take any. That's an inappropriate situation. However, shooting at a demon which is on a boat is different--crossing ever-so-subtly into possible-acceptability--since the demon can fire back at you, your buddies, other enemies, etc. In some ways, it's almost doesn't matter that the demon is on the boat.

I hope that additional information helps.

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Sannio

Online Content Coordinator

Ultima Online (www.uo.com)

Origin Systems

You can read and comment on the thread here

[Matrim Cauthon]

What a load of bull****!

You have to be "in danger" to train bard skills...that is obscenely rediculous that the GM's have nothing better to do than harrass people trying to have fun...Hmmmm maybe they should go fix some of those widespread bugs...........................thats my two cents.

Mat