Nurlaten Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Guild Loot Policy: This is in effect on guild raids, exp groups and other situations will occur when they are not in effect. Please read and be familiar with them. a. Tradable loot: This will all be handled by a main looter(s) appointed by the raid leader. The plat from sellables will be used to provide peridots and other reagents for future guild raids. Usable tradable loot will be explained in part c. b. No drop gear: When the item drops it will be linked in the raid by an officer, if it is an improvement of your gear, you must send a tell to that officer containing a link of your current item in that slot. The officers of the raid will then determine who gets to loot it. This decision will be based on commitment to the guild, raid attendance, and how much of an improvement it is for the person. You must then (except some circumstances which will be dealt with when they arise) give your previous item to the guild bank. Ties in voting will be decided by the highest ranking officer on the raid. i. Example: No drop war pants drop, 2 warriors determine that they want it, both send tells to the officer in charge of looting linking their current pants. The officers will then decide who gets the pants. The “winning” warrior will turn his or her pants in (provided they are tradable) to the loot officer. c. The guild bank will frequently give out gear to members in exchange for their current item. These decisions will be based on the same reasons as the no drop gear. This is where tradable gear will be distributed. d. Epic items: If the raid is set up for that person, they get it. Should extras drop or that person logged prior to it dropping or the raid wasn’t specific, the item will be given to the person farthest along on their epic. Ties or debatable situations will be decided by the officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlaten Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 Please read this and post your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallorn Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Again I like this it ensures that everyone gets the upgrades needed provided it is dont fairly of course and I have no worries on that. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krislor Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 What about items turned into the guild bank? Do we have a policy on what the items, if useable by others, are to be done with? Are they to be sold for reagents and spell components from an officer in trader mode or handed out to certain main account players in the guild that are lacking in that area(weapons and armor)? Just a question I had...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlaten Posted May 10, 2003 Author Share Posted May 10, 2003 Item's given to the guild bank are treated under part c) If usable by a member of the guild it may be given out, if not if will be sold for pp. The pp in the guild bank isn't just used for raid necessities, it is used to help purchase high level spells and sometimes tradeable gear for our members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaeodar Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Well heres a thought . Any items that are donated to the guild bank should be noted by the officer that recives them and the date that they was donated to the Guild bank . and who donated the items this should help in the long run and will help with trust within the guild . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedemon Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Ok... Don't take this the wrong way but i totally disagree with trading in our items to the bank for better ones. odds are the people paid alot of plat for the items that would be turned in for something better. Now, this is a good idea if everyone in the guild could get outfitted with better items regularly but that isnt the case. If we turn in an item for something better then that hinders us from upgrading our equipment on our own. Usually when i upgrade an item i sell what i replaced and start saving for something else, if im trading my items into the guild bank then my plat income will slow down considerably and it will be twice as hard for me to upgrade on my own. As far as buying spells for higher lvls, i disagree with that as well, unless that person is going to pay the money back over time. And if thats the case then we shouldnt need to trade in our gear, just the sellable things looted on raids should cover reagent's. And if not we can always have another "work day", but i doubt that would be necessary. /rant off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krislor Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I like Aaeodar's idea. The items donated should be put on a list that is updated often. The items can stay on the list for a certain amount of time before being put up for sale on a trader. People can check the list to see if the item is something they require or need. Aedemon is also correct. I think people WORKING for thier upgrades is better than just a hand out. I think the line to the item donation window would be huge otherwise. This is not welfare. I also suggest leaving the what the item shall be used for, up to the person donating it. If he/she wants to have the item sold so plat can go to bank or let the item be used by someone who needs it, be solely up to donator. Any other suggestions or ideas would be helpful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlaten Posted May 10, 2003 Author Share Posted May 10, 2003 Here is the main reason for turning in items, it isn't for the guild bank to make money. It's so that more than one person benefits from the drop. If i get a better ring i can turn mine in to someone else that it would benefit. This changes it from me getting a new item and a few k from selling the ring, to me and someone else both getting new rings. The not wanting to turn in items in is simply greed, this system is designed to help the guild as a whole and not just equip a few elite people with all the best armor. Example kael the other day; krislor won These sleeves The item he turned in was totemic arms, (valued at approximatly 100 pp). I think anyone would be willing to do this trade. The process of making the guild bank more public is being worked on by your officers right now. I keep everything that i have in the guild bank written on a sheet of paper with the price i am selling in the baz. It wouldn't be too difficult for me to then punch it into the comp. But how we do this is still up in the air. Your officers are working on this topic right now. Also most items in the guild bank aren't that great. Most items were passed on by the people present in the raid, so it's doubtful that they will be upgrades to others. But since there is a chance that they are, i will try to start updating it. The reasons for the guild bank are real simple, because nothing in the real world is free and that's the same way it works in EQ. Without plat we can't accomplish as much. The guild bank is in the process of acquiring funds so that we can help get some grandmaster tailors and smiths in our guild. If you haven't seen the cultural armor made in smithing or the cazic thule player made items, they are awesome. It would be pretty nice to get those items for cost of materials (1-2k and a little CT fighting for tae ew shield) instead of paying 15-18k in the bazaar for it. The buying of high level spells. KEI scroll costs 40k. Blessing of Aegolism cost 15k. Should it be our chanters and clerics that have to buy these spells out of their own pockets, i don't think so. I don't know about you, but i have noticed that raids are working better now that we have daulton capable of aego-ing and zymmit capable of kei-ing. Just think of all the money that is spent buying KEI everyday in the nexus and be glad that now you don't need to worry about it as much because zymmit has it. Would you rather have heroic bond (19 AC 425 hp) or aego (60 AC 1150 hp)? Would you rather have Clarity II (11 mp/tic lasts 35 mins) or KEI (14 mp/tic, +25 wis/int and + 250 to the mana pool that lasts for 150 mins)? It's pretty obvious to me that these two spells greatly enhance our guilds ability to raid. Basically the guild bank exists for the same reason that the guild does, because it enables us do things that we can't do alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krislor Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Ok thanks for clearing that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldurian Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Another reason for this way of distribution of loot is that it will be need over greed. If you treasure your own equipment that u earne d so hard to get, then don't ask for the drop loot. Its not mandatory.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedemon Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I totally agree with need before greed. i would never want to loot something on raid i couldnt use simply for the purpose of selling it. My point was only that i thought it would be easier for everyone to get new items on their own also if they were selling what they were replacing. This is only my opinion, dont mistake what im saying for me being greedy, thats not the case. I wasnt posting to start an arguement, just saying what i think. So dont or make assumptions about what you THINK is the case until you check with the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthania Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 O.K. well how about this idea.... I am a firm believer in encouraging people to better themselves on their own without asking the guild for handouts.... I know Rebma and I plan on buying KEI for her our own. Maybe even getting a few groups together to camp the mobs. Anyway, I was thinking more along these lines. Looting if the item is NoDrop then the item should go to the player that is the most of an upgrade for and their item should stay with them...Hear me out please..... If the item is magic/lore or a "Sellable" then the player that gets it Should turn in their old slot item to the guild.... the reasoning behind this is that they would be getting something that they could trade away and Giving something that could be traded away. Now if the item that they had on was given by the guild from a previous raid then yes that item should be turned back in but if it was not it should be the players without question... I say this not out of greed but out of consideration for accomplishement and hard work....I am sure that alot of thought and deliberation has gone on over the loot policy and maybe this has been considered but if not then maybe it should be I think it is not only Reasonable but Fair to everyone. Synthania 51 Wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saite Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I have to voice my opinon on this.....I dont like the fact that I have to turn in my old item to get a new one. I have spent alot of time, money and effort upgrading Nada. I do not see it as greed on my part, just the fact that I worked my tail off to get my item and then someone else sits back and does nothing and gets it for free. Sorry, this is just how I feel about the subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlaten Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 No one is forcing you to loot the item, if you value your current item so much, the new drop will go to someone else. The system isn't designed to screw you out of your hard earned items. I spent almost 12k on my shoulder slot item, i'm not going to be expecting any new shoulder item for a long time. And when i get one, you are sure it's going to be worth more than 12k to me or i wouldn't be willing to turn in my current shoulders. And if i get an upgrade than these 12k shoulders will sure help someone else out a ton. If you just dropped your life savings into an item than i doubt that your item is going to be the worst of the people present. The items you will be getting are things that you can't get on your own, that's the point of raiding high end mobs, it's stuff you can't do by yourself. If you don't want to turn your item in, don't ask to be considered for the current drop. "The guild is only as strong as it's weakest members" This system is trying to help us all out, you are just as likely to get a hand-me-down as you are to get a new item. And either way it's going to improve you, which in turn improves the guild. Nada: The person isn't "doing nothing to get your item." They are participating in guild raids and are considered by the officers to be the person most worthy, deserving and needing of the upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldurian Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Well put nurlaten, too bad you paid 2k too much on those shoulders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlaten Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Aldy: Four months ago it was a good deal..... Gotta love the deflation on the value of items in this game. On another note, i just posted in the members forum the stuff i have on me that's the guild banks. Check it out and let me know if you would like any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebma Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Okay, I am slightly torn on this subject, here are my feelings. We have a saying around our house, it is "please don't steal my joy." This comes in handy when we're out shopping with the kids and they ASK for or say they WANT something...The answer is gonna be no, because they are "stealing our joy" to be able to surprise them with gifts. However, if they just go along and be happy and don't ask, they usually leave the store with a new little toy or candy bar. If I get something better, and know theres someone else out there that can use my old item, I like the joy I get giving it to them. I feel that the majority of us are pretty easy-going as a whole, and if given the option we would give anything we aren't using to someone who could in turn put it to use, and do this of our own free will...but its being told I have no choice in the matter that "steals my joy." I get great pleasure out of giving to others, whether its in EQ or RL, but most of that pleasure comes from having the option to give, not giving forcibly. And its not so much greed here either that makes me want to keep my old item. How many of you have ever sold a chest peice or a shoulder slot item and have turned around and used the cash from that item to say upgrade your shoes or pants? I'm thinkin here okay, Reb is wearing a 13k robe that she worked her butt off for a good month to buy, and if we were ever raiding say POH or POF and something happened to come along that was better, I've got some crappy shoulders. That 13k could then be recycled into a nice shoulder slot item and I could continuosly improve myself as I go. However in giving up the item I worked for, there goes my chance at improvement in other areas. These are just my thoughts, but I'm a woman, God knows I think too much. Rebma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthania Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 /agree with Rebma (and not cause she is my wife) Synthania 51 Wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedemon Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I just wanted to say thanks to Rebma for putting what i was thinking into nicer terms . My thoughts only come out harsh, they aren't always intended that way . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saite Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Ty Rebma! You said it alot better than I did. I was very "weak" in trying to get my point across this morning. I was trying to make the post, get the kids ready for school, find my keys....etc...wasnt paying attention to the little details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinil Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 You have a good point from a personal standing Rebma, not having to give your item to guild can help improve you But, from guild officer standpoint, how does it help the guild? We are not trying to keep you from upgrading you equipment guys, what we are trying to do is get everyone in the guild the best gear we are capable of getting them. The better equipped the guild as a whole is the more capable we are as a whole guild. I would say a player being able to keep certain items is understandable, but we are not only talking about when on raids. The officers are currently working on having ppl that are GMs in all tradeskills to improve equipment for guildies If the guild can provide better equipment then what you have why shouldn't other guildmembers also benefit from your equipment being upgraded. Doing equipment upgrades with this methods doesnt only improve one person but at least 2 ppl within the guild. Let me give you an example, Let's say shm 1 has Polished Tin Mail Shirt , shm 2 has Phase Spider Carapice and shm 3 has Ry`Gorr Battlemail Guild smith makes Tae Ew Chain Tunic , by the process of trading in current gear the guild would be able to benefit 3 shms at one time, versus only assiting one shm and that one shm getting 3500P from selling the item As to the first person, he/she should not look at this as "damn, I just lost 3k towards my next upgrade" but has "DAMN, I just saved 15K on that upgrade" because that is exactly what will have happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmichael Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 this system is for use in guild raids and or guild given items...it almost seems to me that some ppl think that it is meant in guild groups or whatever... the point is,if you have an item that you have spent the time and plat to get,YOU WILL BE SURE you want the item that is up for loot on a raid...hence you don't get a chest piece if you need boots,you don't get a helm if you need shoulders...if you need boots,you wait for boots to drop....this system will take a while for the results to become evident but it will work....be patient and be sure that an item is one you really want,if you are not sure it is an upgrade then pass...if you need boots or shoulders,be patient...wait....your time will come eventually... i hope that everyone will see it this way...i hope that everyone will have the patience to wait it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebma Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 alright that brings me to another question, If only one person of a certain class is on a raid and a better item for them drops, then theres obviously no one else they have to compete over an item with, but, do they still have to turn in their old item? Say the item is no drop and no one of another class could loot it anyway? Should it have to get destroyed just because the person doesn't want to give up their old item? I'm not saying this would happen, its like a hundred to one shot, but there are loopholes here, and I'm trying to get an understanding from all angles. And not that I was asked, but if given the option, I would rather have a designated work day once or twice a month to raise guild bank money for those high level scrolls we need to help our members out than be asked to give up my own stuff for someones aego or KEI... It was actually fun to me and obviously raised much less controversy. Rebma 56 Enchanter that thinks too much oh and heres one last thought....and it may not change things as far as the loot policy goes, but why don't we turn this issue into a poll just to see if there is a difference in opinion? I mean a guild wouldn't be a guild without the support of its members as well as leadership right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlaten Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 I would rather have a designated work day once or twice a month to raise guild bank money for those high level scrolls we need to help our members out than be asked to give up my own stuff for someones aego or KEI... The point of turning it items isn't for buying of scrolls, it is for upgrading the other members of the guild, like hinil just said. (Thanks for using an example hinil, my being vague didn't seem to help much) I really think this is just becoming a wording issue, if "required" was changed to "strongly recommended" would as many people have a problem with it? I know a situation will arise where an exception is made, rumble made the point of it a chanter is wearing an SMR (which is needing for their epic) and a better robe drops, should they turn in an epic piece for a better robe? (This point was made in the officer forum when the system was originally designed) Most of us agreed they shouldn't, so obviously there will be exceptions. "Strongly recommended" would that satisfy the majority? Poll: I'm not a big fan of polls becuase it doesn't give peoples full opinion, i much happier seeing the number of responses and people's actual opinion, not choosing yes or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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