raid loot rules

[mcmichael]

i am tired of people balking at every turn of what we are trying to do for the guild as a whole...many of us go out of our way to help each other and i personally pass on loot more times than not while grouped with guildies...but if we can't get everyone to stop balking at "raid rules" i will loot as much as the next guy and if the group excedes 6 ppl at any time i will consider it a guild raid and start assigning loot or keeping for guild bank....we have gone round and round on this...i am tired of it...we are NOT evil dictators and we are trying to improve the guild as a WHOLE the best way we can...if you will not respect and listen to the guild officers...well maybe you don't respect the guild....if that is the case...then...*shrug* how do expect respect from the officers?

and as to requiring that you turn over your item...hmmm,well,maybe we just saved you the time and trouble of having to sell said item to upgrade and take the chance that you would be with an empty slot in the mean time...think about it....WE HAVE BEEN AS FAIR AS WE COULD AS OFTEN AS WE COULD! that will continue,but if you won't let us play nice...maybe we won't play nice....

[Synthania]

Well at least it got moved to Members only LOL Thanks Mcm

Synthania

[Rebma]

Well like I said, it is what it is and I'm along for the ride. Tired of beating a dead horse on this subject anyway. I don't really much care one way or the other, I don't ever go expecting anything chanter to drop anyway, and Nurl DID say there'd be exceptions. I know some stuff synth and I have is borrowed from RL friends and family that play, and when we get something better we like to give the loaner item back. So, perhaps in such situations if we just explained it belongs to someone else, well....but, then we get into an issue of, well anyone could just say their item is borrowed and not hafta turn it in, but I guess thats where trust comes in. I dunno. Dumb idea. I'm not out to be greedy here guys, the time Synth and I both put into work day should tell you guys that. I LOVE to give. I just like having an option to do so, and now that Nurl changed it to optional not required, HEY, ANYBODY WANT A FREE LEVEL 51 WIZZIE?(he's even housebroken!) *I'm feeling giving today* just kidding, love him to pieces

Rebma

level 56 cause of strife

[Shawdar]

Bravo Mcmichael, I must say its high time some one took a firm Stand on this ago old dead issuse,

I hope to see Slot moveing up and on, and not end being the stepping stone to some pre 60's guild,

if you need any help I'm still willing to assist you and offer any Advise needed,

Shawdar Silverfyre

65 Shm

Ex first officer still lurking in the back ground keeping a eye on old friends

[Altarial]

As I said in the discussions section, this topic should be closed. Refer to my other post for everything else I said Happy Birthday!

[Synthania]

You dont want us to be a stepping stone to another guild like you did Shawdar? you dont want us to get people their epics to have them leave? Why are you posting in members only forum Shawdar? Happy Birthday! What gives you the right? I dont see you here struggling through this with us do I? People are posting about this because they care and because we are a Family in this guild and that is what family does they fight they argue even if its pointless... I hope that never changes. I hope that when people dont agree they speak up. I dont ever want to be a part of a guild that says THESE ARE THE RULES DEAL WITH IT OR LEAVE. I for one dont want your advice Shawdar... this topic is dead Nurlaten knows that and we agree with him he did a Wonderful job fielding the questions concerns and suggestions..

Synthania

51 Wizard

p.s. I know that he is still friends with people in SLoT I am sorry if this offends you. However, This is a discussion that is for us not everyone and should not have been in open forum and evidently the password for the members forum needs to be changed along with the officers forum.

[Wallorn]

I have to agree with Mac on this. Sometimes in a guild it is ok to be Democratic in things. Unfortuanatly, whether u like it or not guild structure in and of itself is inherintly miltilristic. Meaning on some issue the entire guild need not be involved in the process. Sorry but true. Too many people to come to a single consensus in guild. THAT is what guild officers are for. So lets take this off the table and move on to new businee. If we havnt already.

[Rumblebore]

Bottom line for me on the issue of Raid loot Rules - I will turn in my items if and when I choose to, not at some dictate by others. I have many times gone out of my way to give up items to guildies, and recently Eldy asked me for some old Pally stuff for a friend of his and one of the tiems I gave hime was my DW Arms, which are probable the nicest arms in the game falling short of no drop stuff for pallies.

I have acquired plat and gone shopping for people in guild just because I knew they would like what I was going to give them.

Bottom line, I already do give up my time, plat and items of my own free will. Making it any kind of a dictate that I HAVE to give up items does NOT work with me. It violates my already well estabished mind set to freely give when and where I can, and REQUIRES me to do it at command, as a means of getting nicer stuff.

/shakes head.

I already have a means whereby my old stuff is either benefitting others, sold to help me afford Tradeskilling (many times have I done that), or just given away because I saw a need. I have in place a personal ethic regarding this matter that addresses the issue for myself.

I will not abide by any decision along those lines regarding the requirement to turn in my old stuff. If that means I cannot benefit from drops, then there is no reason for me to raid except to help others and to have to keep wearing my old armor for the next few years while all my guildies find nice shiny new drops.

If that is the way it wil be then fine. But I will NOT abide this rule as I have stated. Period.

[Nurlaten]

Don't expect any drops rumble. Plain and simple. If you don't want to help the guild, it won't help you. You can give me examples of how you have bent over backwards for slot and all i'll do is say "yes, but you are still being greedy now."

The rules are now the rules. I'm tired of explaining the same reason over and over using different analogies and situations so that you can see it the way those that wrote it do. It says in it, "certain exceptions will be made" and that is true.

Here are the three exceptions that i've seen:

1 Need for epic

2 Friends item

3 Greed

That's it, no other good reasons have been given. The first 2 are understandable. Greed is not. Slot is founded on friendship and family, greed and personal advancement don't factor in. The loot rules will not be tailored around several greedy peoples opinions.

The loot rules are now officially the Sacred Legion of Tunare's Loot Rules. This subject is CLOSED, i don't want to hear anymore whining.

That's all, thanks for taking the time to respond to this topic all that did, but i should have just posted them as they are as fair as they can be, while benefiting the guild as a whole.

[Rumblebore]

GREED???

Anyone here want to accuse me of that??

Anyone else that is?

Happy Birthday!

I am NOT being greedy.

I will address THIS issue in Leaders.

[Eldoran Nobleheart]

I 100% agree with the rules and they are in place! I agree that alot of the time i sit quietly and do not respond immediatly to some posts some as this one, but i prefer to see everyone reaction and responses without tainting opinions with my own. I can honestly look back and think that there has never been an item i didnt give away once upgraded from a raid.

Do all of you realize that these rules only apply to raids? Not guild groups, RAIDS. I talked with a few people that did not realize that, they believed it applied 24/7 which it does not. This subject is closed for discussion if you come on a SLoT raid and a item drops that would benifit you more and you are the one decided to loot prepare to give up that item slot or forfiet looting rights period.Only exceptions are friends borrowed property and epic piece worn items. End of discussion!!!!!!!

On a side note, Nurlaten i appreciate the amount of work that you do for the guild, you are a very important asset to SLoT.

[Shawdar]

First and formost, Synthania I did not use Sacred legion of tunare as a stepping stone guild, I was a member of Slot for almost year, I was also

a high ranking officer in the guild, I am still currently a member of the guild, Synthania

You dont want us to be a stepping stone to another guild like you did Shawdar? 

Second off:

you dont want us to get people their epics to have them leave?

I did not use the guild to get my epic, my epic was done with elite group that I group with still to this day,

I for one dont want your advice Shawdar...

As for you not wanting my Advice, personaly I do not care if you dont want it, my advice is for those officers who know me, and understand that in order to move the guild to a better postion in the game there are certian things that need to be done,

there was a vote taken back in december that the guild as a whole wanted to become a upper tier guild, I now have information for those officers on how to do those things they need to do to see it happen,

As for you Synthania get off your high horse come back down to

EQ, and before /flame on someone maybe you should check your facts.

[Synthania]

You may not remember Shawdar but I was an officer at the same time you were I remember your points policy that fell through you may have good information sometimes but its not all good. I am not on a high horse I am speaking from the heart (which I do from time to time I tend to speak harshly and rashly sometimes because I tend to speak my feelings) also I am not the only one that feels this way (those others may be too timid to speak up) I care about this guild as much as anyone does this is home this is my family. I have been here since the SLoT TKO merge and as Nurl said we do not wish to make this an Uber guild by losing the Family Atmosphere which Eldoran and Nurlaten are doing great by the way... Nurlaten Thank you for sticking through and fielding questions and concerns this topic as everyone has said is Dead. Oh and Shawdar if you feel inclined go ahead and suggest away on the ones I agree with you will get support on the ones I dont I will continue to object as, if you have noticed, I do with anyone. (yes I did forget you still have a character in guild and for that I am sorry) Just because I disagree with you does not mean that I hate you. however, May I ask a question then? Where is Shawdar? Why is he not here with us? trudging through this period along side us? I am enjoying this because one day I will be able to say I helped. I was there through the rough period.... Why are you not? if you care so much why are you not?

Synthania

51 Wizard

most likely digging a hole he will have to port out of but oh well he does that well. (no pun intended)

[Rumblebore]

I will add to Edlorans Post.

I do know how hard Nurlaten has worked on this and defended his position and all during Finals too!!

He deserves A LOT of praise and kudos for a difficult task well done.

And I congratulate and support you in this Nurlaten.

(I have just one sticky point - hehe)

VERY Well Done.!!!!!!!!!

[Shawdar]

Look I'm not going to turn this into a grudge Match between you and I "Synthania"

as for how long I had been in the guild well I was also a Member of TKO who was off line for a couple of months when TKO joined forces with Sacred,

as for the reason I left Sacred legion of tunare, I wanted to play the high end game once again,

I sat at lvl 62 waiting on all of my fellow guild members to get up there levels so that we could all endevor to do pop zones and the upper tier game for close to six months, that was about the same time that every one started to make Alts and playing them, it was also about the same time that a number of people were unhappy do to the fact they were not getting there epics as fast as they wanted, decide they were going to hold up on leveling untill they got there epic, with those two factors combined I removed Shawdar from the guild to place him in a upper tier guild, it was also decided by the rest of my normal group that they would also go to a upper tier guild, so at that point I would have only to other members in the guild I could group with for exp, not a good picture for me as I am a 7/24 player, Also I would like you to know that I never stoped helping SloT, even tho I'm not seen in Guild chat much these days I still log the officers channel offten and chat with them and

share info and others things, to this day I have many friends in Sacred and as to my input into the guild I will never stop helping with that, I know that with the guilds current leader and officers I will one day be in the plane of fire chating with those members in /ooc in the Zone

Shawdar Silverfyre

65shm Of Formidable

Zardix

30 Chanter Of Scared Legion Of Tunare

Shylin

20 chanter Of Fire of Darkness

[Hinil]

Okay time for my 2cents on the issue

Shawdar does have a right to post here, if he wishes, for 2 reasons really

1. he has toon that is current guild member and is not the only person that is in our guild to have a higher lvl toon move on and yet continue to interact with SLoT either through alt or helping with raids.

2. As he stated he was with us for along period of time and has the guilds best interest at heart, if he did not wish SLoT as a whole to succeed he would not even bother posting here.

This will be the first time I have said this outside of officers:

To be honest with you, I dont feel that Shawdar (or any of the others that have left guild for high-end) failed us, we are the ones that have failed them. We have been unable to provide them with the groups or raids neccesary to keep someone that wants to enter the high-end zones. Yes, there are a lot of ppl working on getting to that point, however there are also too many ppl in the guild that have a damned mental block versus doing a zone that they are not used to or have never been to.

-Do me a favor everyone next time you log on, check the guild roster, how many people will you see in the same zone that they are almost always in? How often do most of the ppl in this guild try something new?

Then there are the ppl that do want to go into some of the higher zones, but dont want to do any ground work for getting there.

To those of you who are interested in high end:

If we want to be then a tier 1 yardtrash guild and do more then this allows, we HAVE to start farming Kael and similar zones consistantly again, everyone person in the guild wants to move into higher zones I am certain of this, but without the ppl in the guild being properly equipped it will be very difficult.

Yes some of you have better gear already, if this is the case then help those who dont get it.

If you want me to help, I will help, but I cannot not get the gear for you and to be honest I do not have enough play time to lead the raids to obtain it. But there are many assests in the guild, ppl that know where great gear drops and ppl that have very high tradeskills and the knowledge of were to obtain the items for these tradeskills, use them for knowledge use them for grping, use them to help yourselves and the rest of the guild.

Okay my little tantrum is done for now, gonna log in for a bit

Hinil Bobinil

Shaman of the 54th season

Officer

[Synthania]

(yes I did forget you still have a character in guild and for that I am sorry) Just because I disagree with you does not mean that I hate you.

Aye Shawdar Hence my "apology to you having the right to post in Memebrs forum" I had forgotten about your alt... However I still stand if you didnt have that alt It would not be right of you to post there and you know it... I am not trying to turn this into a grudge match Shawdar I dont hold a grudge against you. You did what you felt you needed to do and this is a game... There were many times in the past that I posted supporting you or saying wow well thought out Shawdar.. Anyway the topic is dead I am done Please forgive me for being rash Shawdar... Half of what I said would not have been said had I remembered your alt...

Synthania

still wondering if the hole is too deep to climb out of....