Officer Meeting

[Nurlaten]

We agreed to bi-weekly officers meeting at the last one.

It's been two weeks, so i guess it's time to have another.

Sorry about the short notice, didn't have internet for the past 3 days.

I will be posting the log, so don't worry too much if you are gonna miss it.

Topics:

Charter

Tradeskill Workday

Anything else people are concerned about (hopefully nothing about the loot rules)

I hope most can be there and again i apoligize about the short notice, but then again you were told 2 weeks ago about it.

[Synthania]

LOL will do my best to be there we are still plugging away at the house (have the floors sanded now doing the edges and corners) may be able to get away tuesday at 9:30 p.m. I am guessing this is EST?

Yes please nothing about the loot rules hehehe

[Eldoran Nobleheart]

i have something i wish adressed but i would also like it adressed here as well. This is a very touchy subject here and i am tremendously trying to make sure that i am not over reacting. On Sunday I asked Mcm to gather the troops to help Dyl kill the general. Mcm announced it in guildchat and the normal people started saying sure ill be there, we all know who they are, but alot of people were dragging feet. Well the raid didnt go off and we looked very bad since Undead Legion was also helping us and they had 30 people ready to move there. Now i believe that these kind of things should be mandatory and if people dont want to come mabye they are not right for us. Now Dylanii called me at work last night and said she was gonna leave SLoT and for the first time i cannot find a reason why she shouldnt leave. So how do we fix this problem? What do we say to Dylanii?

[Altarial]

I hate bringing up stuff about "my old guild," but we had this thing called CTA (Call to Arms) and whenever a mob was up that someone needed for an epic or if it was some rare mob (I think we ended up killing Gorenaire this way), an officer would spam CTA and where to meet. Everyone was expected to be at the designated spot in 5 min, no exceptions. I don't know how to get our members to respect this sort of thing though. In my former guild, it was just done.. everyone left their groups and no one complained. I think that if people decide that they don't feel like coming, then maybe we can just decide we don't want them in the guild if they don't want to help us out. If we can't rely on people to help guildmembers out then what's the point? We're in the guild to help each other out. I remember many times other people in my groups from other guilds would say, "oh my guild needs me, i gotta go," and the group i was in didn't say, "oh you [booger] why are you leaving us?"... it was just something we knew that they had to do. If people "can't" leave their groups to come help out the guild, then it is their problem.. their groups will understand so that is not a valid excuse. I would leave anything to help out a guildmate. I know it's a weak example (since the raid was for me), but when we were going to kill Ixi for me, I was invited to a trials group, and then 3 hours later was invited to PoV.. so if i had joined the trials group, i probably could have joined the pov group. My point is that even if that raid wasn't for me, I still would have gone to help out my guildmate. I hope I made some sense, but I'm still not sure what we can do to get people in motion, unless we had some sort of rule where if they didn't show, they would either be put on some kind of probation or be kicked out of the guild. I was so happy when people showed up for my short-notice Ixi raid, and I want everyone else to feel that way also. I hope Dylanii does not leave the guild, but if we can't find a way to control our members, then she won't be the only one leaving I'm sure.

And I won't be able to attend the meeting. My dad's coming by tomorrow afternoon to take my computer home... not sure when exactly it'll be up and running again.

[Synthania]

Make it Mandatory. EoS "End of Story". I went on Dyl's epic raid and something happened on the turn in (again). I also went on Alt's Ixi raid (minus a RL emergency at my complex) but still.... Now the only thing I have to say is this... We CAN NOT expect someone to come on a raid if RL makes it impossible. If one of us has a CtA everyone that is lvl enough goes if not they go back to their Probationary period. I do not have a problem with ths. Howeve if the raid is called late at night I am sorry I have to work the next day and RL takes precedence. If I am to be guild removed because I have to sleep for work the next day that I feel is wrong...However if a CtA is announced and I dont go because of a group ? PLEASE THERE IS NO EXCUSE.... LOL I can say this because the last two CtA I have attended...

[Wallorn]

First off I agree with Synth, people cannot be penalized for RL events and stuff. That bieng said...

As I have said in earlier post, A guild is inherintly MILITARISTIC!!!! That is you have troops and leaders. As much as

some people will balk, there have to be some MANDATORY things in our guild. Especially with rare mobs and epic mobs.

I feel Dyl pain. I myself discussed with some friends leaving SLoT last time my epic mob fell through...you all saw my

post on that...Again some things must be MANDATORY if they don't like it screw em. Honestly, most people will be a

little uncomfortable with mandatory stuff but it will work itself out trust me. At first there will be some complaining...

let them do so and get it out of thier systems...You will find more and more people supporting this policy as we gather

to help them or thier friends with the rare mobs/epics they need. Enuff said....

[Eldoran Nobleheart]

im not not talking about RL eventrs im talking about people that were online doing other things!

[Dylanii d'Arias]

Yes, I did call Eldy at work and tell him that I was seriously considering leaving the guild...a guild that I have been a member of longer than anyone with the exception or Mr. Bossman himself. I know that Eldy was trying to help matters with his post, BUT, he cannot speak very well for me...

I would never, NEVER, leave simply because I didn't get what i wanted. I know he did not mean to put it that way, but i don't want it to sound that way to all of you. I have been very relaxed about the idea of me getting my epic and the fact that we couldn't gather the forces required for General on Sunday didn't bother me in the least.

Allow me to explain what does bother me....

The fact that we have only a handfull of truely good people in this guild who have their hearts in the right places. They are the same people who show up for everything (or at least put their best effort into showing). They are the same people who show up no matter which member a CtA is for, weather it is their best friend or a member they have yet to befriend. And they are the same people who will read this post (with the addition of a few that do not have access to this forum) because they are the ones who bother to keep informed of what is happening. They are the people who, when there is a CtA, they don't pipe up in /gu by saying...."who is this for", "what sort of drops will we (I) be getting?" .

It seems I have seen the majority of the guild slowly slip into the abyss of "me, me, me, I, I, I, mine, mine, mine" and it really saddens me....it is something i don't look forward to being a part of in the future.

I also care about how SLoT is viewed upon by others, and there have been a few times lately that we have made ourselves look like asses, especially to our new friends in UL. UL was appalled at the turn out for Renux on Saturday night. Yes we had the forces needed and yes we took the mob with minimal problems, but UL members were disturbed to see the number of SLoTs on-line compared to the number of SLoTs showing up to help. They kept asking why aren't the others coming?.....what could i tell them?? i had no clue. See to them showing up to a CtA is not simply having enough force to take down a mob, but it is a showing of support and unity....it really isn't even something they think twice about, they just do it.

If i think about it enough, I can remeber a time when SLoT was like that, but the picture is fuzzy to say the least.

Of course there are other things that sadden me about the guild as well...I have discussed them with Eldy, they are matters that I am not sure he wants shared, so i will not go into them here....

I guess in short i just feel like i am reaching my breaking point and I am too exhausted to try and get back on track.

[Rumblebore]

Well.

I know an officers meeting was set for every 2 weeks but frankly I forgot about it and will not be available to attend.

Also, a Raid on monday, on weds, on thurs, and one on friday??

And an officers meeting on Tuesday?

I dont mind a couple of raids per week and frankly, of them all, I would put Wednesdays raid above all others (and will) and tuesdays officers meeting a very close second. But THIS kind of schedule is more than I can put in/attend. I used to be able to do all of these back when I was playing 4-8 hours a day, every day, but now I am trying really hard to make RL more important.

So, regretably, I will definitely make weds and hope to make friday.

---------------

The Call to Arms idea has merit. 2 things about that.

Announce in advance that this is being instituted. Make people aware that if you are part of SLoT you MUST comply with this rule. I have no problems dropping what I am doing to run and help on a named mob that is a rare spawn and I knew that something like this HAD to come sooner or later. It was inevitable to get some epics and also to get some of the nicer items available on the old world expansions. Announce that people need to make a choice. If you stay in SLoT expectations will be very high on this CtA. When it is called, you MUST attend or give a really good reason why you cannot (CR deep in the Hole, for example). Failure to attend and to stay online doing something else will net you a removal. Black and white -you MUST attend. If you have to leave in 60 mins come to the CtA and determine whether you will be able to assist with any part of the raid or else have to leave. Obviously a Warrior who has to leave in 60 mins is not the same as a Shammy who has to leave in 60, who can pass out some buffs before logging, etc.

Second, as mentioned - I knew this was coming - it had to sooner or later. But on the point of giving out exemptions, as has already been mentioned, RL events will need to be accepted __IF__ the person logs OUT of game. If they log onto an alt just to hide away, then that person is netted a removal - if we catch it. This is gonna cull the guild big time, and fast. Once you set the date to start, and you had better give them SOME time to decide about this (1 week?), then Implement it and STAY ON IT. People will get pissed but it will show that we mean business. CtA or removal.

Allow some people to return if they can show they will support this, but they will be removed permanent if they fail another time.

~~side note~~

I went to Fan Faire in SF back in November. I spoke to many and talk to them now. They agree that a big part of guild raiding at high levels is militaristic, but many also allow a large amount of flexibility, because they know their people are **reliable**. We do not have a large base of reliable people, as Dyl mentioned. I warn against going 100% militaristic. You will kill the guild that way quickly, but we MUST implement many more militaristic-type policies to become more disciplined.

We need reliable people, consistent people. And we will have to let some people go who do not fit that bill.

Use wisdom please and care - but we will need to make a change that will alter the way things are done - To get to a raiding guild level.

*kneels and prays that what he said gets through and that wisdom will abound*

[Synthania]

Hmmmm.... Dyl what you say is very true. I agree with all of this but I also remember a moment in time where we had decided that SLoT was not going to disband for not attending raids. It was going to be a family oriented guild without the High Pressure raiding situation. (Please please I am not disagreeing read my earlier post) this is where the problem stems from I am sure. We do not want to lose the camarderie of friendship that abounds in the guild. Officers take note who shows up who doesnt. Who is being selfish with their time and who is available? I think one of the main things we need to do is when we recruit we need to make sure people understand that we are becoming a raiding guild and that CtA's are mandatory. You all know that I dont have a problem with this. I stayed up WAY past sleep time for Alts Ixi raid. LOL please dont think poorly of rebma for missing it she was wiped and was out before the raid even started.

Rumble I agree with you make an announcement... Not only on the website but in guild MoTD. leave it there make sure people understand whats happening. Are we going to grandfather in those that have been in guild for a while and dont want this? are we going to go back on what was said and make this a High Lvl raid guild no matter the cost? I know of a guild that is like this and you know what it leads too Rumble? In the guild I speak of Looting is not an option either. If the officers tell you to loot guess what? You loot. You dont have a choice. If its an upgrade and your up for it wether you want the item or not you loot it or youre gone. Is this what we want? hmmmmm...... Think about this. I dont care I am now at the point in my life where none of this matters.... If I am on and a CtA is called I am there no big deal.... If a raid is scheduled and I am able to go I am there. I used to have a problem with this but its a game.....I am a part of a guild there are expectations in a guild. I dont know yall I am rambling I am soooo worn out from working on the house I dont know up from down all I know is I dont care anymore...... You tell me to do it I will. (thats what I mean about not caring) If it ever gets to be too much I will leave....Its a Game. The whole point of the game is to keep bettering yourself. note that "yourself" To get the best stuff you need a guild to get the ultimate stuff you need a high lvl raiding guild. (or a whole heck of alot of money) Is this a book or what? Anyway, all I know is I want my spells I want lvl 65 thats the only thing I Hate about raids there is absolutely NO EXP on a raid. I dont care about armor... I am a Wizard... I want Zlandicars heart though. LOL I want it so bad I can feel the blood dripping from his carcass onto my head as I walk inside his ribcage to pull the unbeating object from his chest. Ohhhh that was morbid. Anyway see yall I ramble not sure if anything I said made any sense whatsoever. I guess the whole point is I am in... No matter what I am in.

[Nurlaten]

It looks to me like we need to have that poll done again. (The problem with the poll is most people that use the websites are the ones in this officer forum, so it almost doesn't need to be done. But then again there is a strong connection between people that volunteer to show up to informal raids and those that come to the website. I just ran around in circles, hopefully it makes sense to you.)

I'm all for the raiding guild enviornment. But i'll be the first to admit that we will lose a lot of people if we decide to change. Slot was originally founded on a friends a family guild, but i'll paraphrase another guild, "We are a bunch of friends that had the misfortune of leveling and being able to raid, so we decided to take advantage of it." Can't remember what guild this is from, but it's an inny one.

Right now people are asking for more raids, that's why there is one almost everyday this week. Personally i'm excited, because if i miss one than i still get to raid a couple times each week. A couple months ago, if i missed a raid then there wouldn't be an oppurtunity to raid for another week.

Cta needs to be added. Some raids need to be mandatory, i've gone to a raid 2 percent til ding, knowing that it would take me 10 more mins to ding, yet the guild needed me, so i dropped what i was doing and showed up. Many mobs are on week long timers and we have a short window to get to the mob and engage it before someone else steals it.

On a kael raid i sat (at the time it was supposed to start) and watched two guilds zone into kael, form groups and move to the arena before half of slots force was there. Instead of saying oh well, i guess we will go to the bank (like i did), i should have started barking orders and yelling at people for taking so long. And this too is preaching to the choir as most of the people there on time are the ones allowed to read this forum.

Dyl - It would be a shame if you decided to leave us and i hope you will explain more of the problems you are seeing so we can try to work to fix them.

[Synthania]

Nurl the poll would be useless and we all know it. Not enough people visit the site. We would lose alot of people but if thats what all of the officers want then who cares go fo it. A guild with 20 members who will be anywhere at any given time they are on is better than a guild with 100 that wont show up for anything.... I heard that somewhere.... (think it was here) Yes I know all I have changed my tune on raids but thats only because my RL situation has changed and I am available to play and raid more often now....(the kids have a backyard to play in now intead of out in the complex... LOL

[Dylanii d'Arias]

This was originally started as a reply to a PM that i receicved, but i decided to share it with all of you....

I don't think that Eldy wants me to share my other reasons for being unhappy with the guild, at this point they are personal, and I will not address them unless either he brings them up first or he gives me the ok.

I have monitored the replies to my post and i think that even though I wrote a novel, I still wasn't clear enough....it was 2am afterall and i was tired.

I don't think that SLoT needs to be run in a militant fashion and I don't think that more raids are the answer. I also don't think that we need more members who play more hours and have less RL things to get in SLoTs way...I myself, being a mom and a student, often do not have time to play much...Hours played is not what counts in my opinion, but the quality of those hours.

I think what I was really trying to get at is on a more idealistic lvl. It is not something i can put my finger on, all i know is that it is something that used to be there and that it is not there anymore...or at least it is quickly slipping away (if that makes any sense). It is hard for me to explain it anymore than that, i can't find the words i guess. If one of you has any clue what i am talking about and might be able to say it better by all means please do so.

P.S. Since I have school tonight I cannot come the the meeting to try and voice this any further.

[Synthania]

I think I know what it is Dyl.... Its the Family attitude... I just put a finger on it. because TKO used to be the same way... It was the fact that everyone felt comfortable with each other and people cared... We have been through alot of recruits lately and I think it may be people are uncomfortable with each other I myself am a little uncomfortable with a few of them.... I am trying not to be but its not easy....the air of the guild changed when it was pushed through to become a full raiding guild... I am not totally against the idea but not sure I want some uber stuff but we are at the point now that we have the peeps we just need to be higher lvl.... I dont know dyl I just dont know