The Chardok Event

[Rumblebore]

Well it didnt happen.

Here is what I saw.

From the moment we were gathering what 'felt' absent was one person firmly in command of the raid. I started worrying then, but it seemed things were coming together.

We got into BW zone and groups that were formed were reformed - okay, but it still didnt seem clear.

That the Renegades came to help seemed a big boost to my morale and I felt the chance of us getting there went up 50% easy.

We zoned into chardok and found LoD there gathering also. And then Mcm announced his problems with lag and he asked for someone to take over.

I felt the weight drop on me, and tried to work out what to do on a raid I didnt have maps nor the printed instructions of what to do. At that point I felt we needed to call it - we really were leaderless with someone who KNEW what we needed to do and could guide us to do it. I asked Ren(..*..) from the renegades what he knew of this raid and he couldnt recall details - Nail # 3 for this raids coffin. And then the comment by Svinter and Zymmit began. In ooc. Saying how we had control, etc.

We didnt. It was a bad situation to find myself in . I LIKE planning and KNOWING what needs to be done, to have maps and org sheets I make, etc to lead an event or raid. Anal some call it. I chatted with Elauriel the raidleader of LoD and he/she was great - they easily accepted the offer that we back them and that we follow and learn the path, that we could loot prince and queen. I thought - YAYY - it works for BOTTH of us.

And then I asked in officerschat about the offer and asked opinions.

*crickets chirping*

I suddenly knew why the raid wouldnt work. The OFFICERS werent on the same page either. No amount of commanding or assigning would make this a successful raid if WE arent together with a clear leader at the helm.

I did get some things in officerschat like "call it rum" and questions why they should get the king and we being left without anything.

And I frankly hurt because I could feel nadannu's heart breaking.

She DESERVES this mob and this drop. I want her to get it so badly....

So i called it in officers and then Zymmit opened his mouth and in OOC thanked LoD for ruining our raid. Which I immediately ooc'd that the comment was rude and he should apologize now.

I handled it wrong - I should have made it private - not public.

And Zymmit GuildRemoved himself.

We lost our KEI'r because of his mouth and mine.

I told svinter to shut up (exact words) about some of his comments and he very quickly backed off (this was in tells - and was good.)

I am sorry I wasnt better prepped but this had all the makings of failure and I feel that way too.

Gonna go blow this off and will see you later in game sometime.

Bye all for now

[Wallorn]

I disagree...we had plenty of leadership...Mac was taking it and I was backing him...anyways I posted in guild...I want

people to know this isnt on our heads all the time. They need to step up as well I am DAMN sick of babysitting people.

And bluntly put...screw Zymmit...I am tired of people just mouthing off in ooc and making us all look stupid.

I am very very sorry we bought his KEI. I am sick of seeing this stuff in officer forum I'm gonna start taking it to guild.

They need to take responsiblity too. WE always say WHAT we could have done. Well if they would have done their part

we would have already been in there not having to call it.

[mcmichael]

your post offends me rumble,WHAT I SAW HAPPEN is a guild that would not join a channel,a guild that couldn't get to chardok(or even burning wood for that matter)by raid time,what i saw happen was a guild pass us by because the guild was too slow.what i saw happen was you post this about groups formjing and reforming all the while iwas looking to my paper and typing out groups...if what you say happened,then lack of control was not my problem,lack of respect by you and the rest of guild was my problem.

actually rumble,i wish you had posted this in members forum,becuase what you saw and what i saw are 2 different things.

i tire of the bs,i tire of the fights and complaints about raids and loot rules and ppl not getting there and i tire of someone throwing stones in a post,don't push this on me or any other officer.,look at the guild.

[Synthania]

I wish I would have been there so I could comment on this topic... but for once The Wandering Wizard is Speechless...

[Nurlaten]

Wish i was there, unfortunatly i was unable to log in.

[Rumblebore]

Lets see – the last time I said something in Members it was considered by many to be inappropriate and it was mentioned I should have brought it to Leaders First. This time, I did exactly that and now comments exist saying I should have said this in Members??

*shakes head in confusion*

OK – on with the show. SOLUTIONS to follow.

I came to the raid in more than enough time to be added into a group and sat down and SAID NOTHING – I just watched things unfold. That’s right – I wasn’t in charge – I came and sat and was ready to do whatever I was told to do when I was told to do it.

I thought that is what we wanted people to do, so I set the example.

I was the first to put up LFG and I made the comment in SLOTRAID channel that I had done so. Immediately the theme picked up and people started putting LFG up, but not all. Svinter complained about how often he does that and immediately gets a lot of tells as a result, from people who are using the LoY function to search for people who are LFG. Clearly, I was ready for the raid and __I__ initiated the LFG part of this raid.

It took about 2 minutes for another officer to pick up on that part of it and announce that LFG needed to be up.

As for forming groups, they were not assigned groups. Instead, what was said was for people to form up groups with a teleporter in it. Period. No leaders were assigned that I saw in officers nor in guild, nor in raid channel. So, unless tells were sent assigning leaders, this process is NOT how we have stated things should be done – groups are formed by the raid leader, leaders assigned, and leaders form groups – The raid leader forms the raid.

OK, Mcm was working to make this happen. But in over an hour of time, it never came about. And Mcm’s problems with lag and LD issues seems to be a cause for it and a source of aggravation for him. I apologize to Mcm for how my post was toned, but I was put in a bad position and tried but failed, and made a screw up. I didn’t exactly feel like I had done good by and for the guild when I wrote that.

I then saw groups one by one port out. We headed from SF to BW and Svinter got lost in SF so I went into zone and drew him to zone and we headed to Chardok. Everyone was outside, Zymmit was inside Chardok already, and that is when groups were “reassigned”.

Through all this I stayed in background as much as possible, letting leaders lead – but the only leader I saw working was Mcm and his comments seemed sporadic. I do not want to offend him, I am trying to state what I saw. Obviously, having led a few raids, I know how much work goes on that we do NOT see. I saw Aaeodar and Wally assisting several times with comments to groups and people, to keep things going. I am not without understanding Mcm.

Once in Chardok, having to step into the shoes of Leader, well I have already stated what that was like. Maybe we should have just jumped in – but we were NOT in raid mode, and no one had by that time explained what we needed to do, to the troops, and I had NO prep to lead a raid in a zone I had been in only once. Who knew the way to the royals?? I sure didn’t.

SOLUTIONS:

Leadership defines what a group will be and accomplish. We set the course, we define the goals, we direct the ship. The people follow and hopefully, adapt to the new format/guidance, or hop ship. So while you say the issue is in the guild ( and you are correct that is where a lot of this issue came from), what we do as leaders will also have a big part in what success we have.

We raid Chardok several times before we do a full Cleric Epic raid in there – so we KNOW what to expect and get a MUCH better feel for the zone. Also, there are drops needed by some from the Royals other than the King, so this can be the object of one of the raids.

On the Epic Raid – we assign a Leader and a co-leader. They coordinate it all and lead. Each officer will be required to study the zone and know how to get where we want to go and how to support the leadership of the raid.

We schedule this as best as possible, even if that means we state – “Chardok raid in next 2 days”. We gather 30 mins before, we port in and are ready to move at the appointed time.

Other rules should be worked out.

This is a tough time for us as we move from one type of Guild to another. It looks like a crackdown is needed on members as well as discipline imposed on us as leaders, that our duties and expectations need to be clarified.

It is called growing pains. We are in it big time.

[Synthania]

ahhh I am beginning to understand... Its also called feeling bad...It happens during growing pains and its understandable... Mcm? you tried and I think made a good call in asking another to lead because of connectivity issues....Rumble you feel bad because you were unprepared to lead (no fault there) and it fell through.... Zymmit and Svinter opened their BIG MOUTHS and embarrassed the guild... Rumble you corrected Zymmit and he left... GOOD RIDDANCE... It was said in ooc it should have been refuted in ooc to let the ZONE KNOW we as Leaders WILL NOT TOLERATE things like that... Good Show Rumble.... Anyone that cant take correction in CONTEXT needs to go away anyway....

SOLUTION:

All leaders should be provided with maps and layouts of the zones we are going to. This is not impossible if you set up a raid EMAIL the maps to the other officers or put the link of the site you got the info from here.... That way if one drops we have back ups... If you are an officer and are going on a raid make sure you Know whats going on....

Suggestion: We need to be gentle with people who are "trying" I believe we have the chance to hurt alot of feelings in the officers club and in the members section.... Please be aware that Words hurt.... alot sometimes especially when someone already Feels bad about something they tried to do and it didnt work...( I am that way anyway)

I know that a walkthrough was posted on this website prior to the raid. I only wish I had been available to help...(see I feel bad and wasnt even there) its not always logical feelings buit they are real and they guide our every move...

Synthania

The Wandering Wizard

[Altarial]

I feel bad about Zymmit. He was a good friend to me and to the guild, but if he disbanded after just 1 thing like that, then maybe we was about to go anyway. I think we benefited very much from his KEI, so I can't see it being a total waste. As for the raid on Chardok, I think that maybe the officers, or maybe the guild as a whole, should go with other guilds and see how it's done. I don't think we've ever killed the King (not certain though), and if we did it was a long time ago, and it's always good to have people along who actually know the zone, not just from maps. It's just an idea though.. I know we do not want to push Nada's epic back any further, but maybe something I say can be used in some way or another Also, I said before that we should have a person who is specifialy a raid coordinator along on all raids. This way it is not up to the leader, who has enough to do, to set up the groups and the raid coordinator can then rearrange groups as more people come or leave. It's hard for me to understand why people would not want to help to get their guildmate's epics, but I guess I'm just too nice. I want us all to get our epics, but maybe we should just cancel our epic raids and then see if the members say anything and see if they say they say that they want to help now. I don't want to cancel epic raids, that would just be stupid, but we need some way to show the members that we are serious. I feel really bad for Nadannu and even though I wasn't there I can feel the frustration. When MCM left maybe the raid should have been cancelled since there was no one who was as knowledgable of the zone to take over. No one wants to cancel a raid when we have our forces present, but maybe that would have worked the best. Again, I was not there, so I don't know details and I think I've run out of things to say, so I'm just gonna stop now