WoW being LAME

[Larstark]

With all the Hype on World of Warcraft I was intrested in seeing what Blizzard created this time. My being a Diablo and Diablo ][ graduate, I thought I'll give World of Warcraft a try.

I'm NO authority ... on exactly how to program a good game but World of Warcraft has not been programmed with any kind of Reality or Believability in mind. Maybe it’s more of the Designers fault and not the programmers however, the product needs to be changed.

BEFORE you say yayaya .... blablabla... Try this for yourself.

Take your Highest level character to a newbie zone, remove your weapon, then bare hand slap a 1st level creature there, then turn your attacking off before you kill it. Took me three times to get this done. In using a caster use your first level Direct Damage spell. Once just once to get it attacking you. Once you have one attacking you and your not killing it watch how many hp’s that creature takes from you with each hit. Let it hit you say 10 - 20 times then Kill it. Scroll back through the battle log. Add the hp's up for say 10 shots (I did 20). Take your armor off... yes OFF, put it in the Backpack or a bag. Now that you have nothing on but your underware slap another of the same creature. Once again add the amount of Hp’s it has removed in the same number of hits.

Did the amount of Hp’s removed change? I’m not talking 1 or 2 hp’s here I’m talking as it SHOULD have changed dramatically. Full plate to naked....and I had 2 (two) hp’s difference with 20 hits. OK the first level only does one (1) point of damage with each hit but with an AC of around 1k Warrior and 550 Druid it didn't make any difference for either of them.

Now that you tried it with first level critter try one you will get exp from. Did the amout of HP's removed change? Mine didn't in 20 hits with the Warrior had a 10 point difference .. the druid had 8. The wearing of Armor doens't make any difference. I did this with several different levels of creatures and I'm Telling you NOW ARMOR USE DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE! ... AND it REALLY SHOULD!!!

IF ... any of you come up with a significant reason to wear armor post it here please. I've only been playin WoW since Christmas 2004 ... it was a gift to myself. My warrior is just 26 .. the Druid is just 19. Maybe armor does something in upper levels. If not the lets all HUNT NAKED!

Another ISSUE I have with WoW is that creatures do not DROP believable drops. In killing my first or second wolf as a 1st level Human Warrior I was REALLY surprised to get a Chain Mail Chest piece. Later on I was fighting some humanoid creature (Kobold maybe) who was holding a Mace looking weapon with a shield and when it fell to the ground I ended up as my loot a Two Handed sword.....mmmm

After playing EverQuest for 5 years I got sick of it. (28 Bard, 51 Druid, 36 Cleric, 34 Enchanter, 28 Paladin, 32 Warrior, 45 Wizard... those are from just 1 server and I was on 6 different servers) I showed EQ to my Mac friends. They rushed out to buy it when it showed up for Mac . . . only we found out that we can’t play together. I thought since Blizzard supports Mac and PC playing together I’d give this a go. I’ve showed this to the fore mentioned Mac friends and none of them are rushing to buy. I had (we had) hoped for better. For those of you who have not played EQ, the treasure drops are believable. In that, if the creature your fighting is hitting you with a mace YOU will get that MACE... not a Two Handed Sword. Wolves do not drop armor, shields or weapons, etc. they drop wolf hides and wolf meat.

It’s nice that Blizzard Entertainment has produced this game but, it needs work. The designers need to set down with the programmers and GAMER’s to get these major flaws corrected. I and I say I but I know several others, want my RP game to have believability as well as to be pretty. The game has nice graphics. The programming just needs a few tweaks to the treasures dropped and add a hit damage verses Armor Class subroutine.

[Balandar]

I'll have to try the armor on/off trick tonight and see how my level 50 warrior reacts to that, probably with mobs my level.

As to the loot, when I killed felwood wolves last night, none of them dropped anything other than what I would expect a wolf to drop. I did not get swords/etc. However, if one did drop a large plate chest piece (blue would be nice)... I would wonder how the wolf could have swallowed it whole from the previous owner..

[Wolf]

Interesting experiment. It will be interesting to see raw damage taken as a result. Regardless however, I know where ditching armor is not feasible from a standpoint of all the mods that comes with the armor. The + increase to the attributes i.e agility, strength etc... directly correlates to my characters ability to do damage to my target. A low agility for me as a Rogue would dramatically reduce my DPS making me far less effective in a fight. Perhaps they have AC set as a function of how often you are hit/absorb versus actual damage taken from a successful hit. Don't know, but interesting nonetheless.

[Larstark]

Wolf - your right about the STAT's of the armor... that might even have accounted for the number of HP's difference ... I know one piece on each the Warr and Druid have Agility + of some value.

One other thing I forgot to mention... With shield put it away ... You can actually use that to Block some damage! The shield was the only piece of armor that I felt was of any use.

[Martok]

Fight a higher level mob. One around your own level. With full armor and a shield I take small amounts of damage, without armor on, well....glad I had that healing potion.

[Larstark]

Martock did you NOT understand I've fought up to and including my level ... no armor ... The HP's removed were always the same as when I had armor on.

As Wolf brought up the shield ... I'd forgotten that the Shield was the ONLY piece of armor that did any thing. You will actually BLOCK some of the damage with the shield.

If you want to try this experiment again start with out a shield just armor ... two handed weapon what ever you want ... just if you remove a shield the numbers change DRAMATICALY as it should with armor on or off.

I was hoping Balandar could shed some light that armor actually does something in upper levels. If you've been following I've only been playing since Christmas and right now ..... sorry for all those that like WoW ... I con't want to continue.

[Volonazra]

thats unbelievable. if thats all true about armor, im not so sad that Volonazra basically weres tissue paper for armor. Clothe caster damage reduction is near nonexistent. (IRC ,my AC at 36 is >300) My alts are pretty low level still so i cant share any game experience, but im pretty sure AC does matter.

According to the WoW vault, armor reduces damage using the following algorithm:

Damage Reduction = (.3*(Armor Class-1)/(10*Level+89))

if you visit http://wowvault.ign.com there is a calculator to use.

WoW game mechanics work using slight variance and marginal factors. Not knowing exact numbers of it all i cant give specifics. However, that is why such things like talents,race abilities, etc are seemingly teenytiny percentages.

As for the drops topic, yeah its strange. As a mmorpg veteran, im just used to it. I have always liked the idea that what ever a npc/mob had i should be able to take. For example, if i slay some warrior who had a sword,shield,full set or armor, clothes under that armor, money, tickets to the ball, etc it should be up for the taking.

[Martok]

I don't know what you're talking about. I did try this. Twice in fact. Stamina only has a small effect on your hitpoints. VERY small. Vol posted the armor formula.....

I took a considerable amount of damage with 0 armor from a level 50 mob. With armor and shield it was a huge difference. Maybe you're just not high level enough to notice it? Not sure. I have over 3600 AR with my shield...it makes a huge difference. I notice a huge difference when I fight with my two-handed weapon rather my one hander and a shield.

Sorry you're not enjoying the game. Every game has its lovers and haters. I happen to be a WoW lover

[Soke]

I don't know what you're talking about.  I did try this.  Twice in fact.  Stamina only has a small effect on your hitpoints.  VERY small.  Vol posted the armor formula.....

I took a considerable amount of damage with 0 armor from a level 50 mob.  With armor and shield it was a huge difference.  Maybe you're just not high level enough to notice it?  Not sure.  I have over 3600 AR with my shield...it makes a huge difference.  I notice a huge difference when I fight with my two-handed weapon rather my one hander and a shield.

Sorry you're not enjoying the game.  Every game has its lovers and haters.  I happen to be a WoW lover 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also depends on what class you are. If yer a mage/warlock, taking off your armor and not casting yer shield spell won't make that much of a difference. I think Soke (35 mage) has around...500 armor with the buff up? Half that without, which translates into roughly "soaking" about 15 percent of the damage. Whee. A mage's main defense is not to let the mobs get close to them, or kill them quickly. A warlock's main defense is their pet.

Warrior on the other hand, big difference. I'd imagine somewhere in the middle for the leather users, the rogues and shamans and hunters.

As for loot dropping, I don't particularly care. I remember DAOC fondly because of the random drops and the excited "OMG what was THAT?" moment I'd get when seeing it. A pair of +1 con green shoes was cause for joy in those days. I mostly play (and this is weird, I know) to satisfy my need for "phat lewt" in a game. I love CoH, but it doesn't have loot. So, if a wolf drops a pair of magic boots it's cause for joy in me. But then, I'm a big weirdo. Otherwise, WoW is just...ok for me. Nothing good, nothing bad, just kinda meh. I just needed my phat lewt, dammit! Well, that and hanging out with the pervy troll Rhoach is cool too. Oh, yeah, and Uld. And just about everyone else. I'm an awful soloing hermit in CoH so grouping is good here.

Edited January 13, 2005 by Soke

[Larstark]

THANK YOU ALL that tiried the experimant. I'm SO glad to hear once I obtain some levels that AC will help. Some one who didn't post here but sent me a private eMail gave me something to do. Since they didn't post here I'll not give name.

any way What I was told to do is while in game ... bring up your character screen. Put the mouse over the place where your AC is shown. It will tell you how much your armor will (or is suppose to) reducie the damage by. In doing that I found wearing leather my reduction is a Whoping 20.1%.

Since that equates to 2 pts per 10 I don't get that. For instance last night with the druid being 20 (now) I slappped a lvl 18 mob. It was hitting me for 13 - 21 pts of damage leather on or off. What I did notice was that I wasn't getting Critted as often with the leather on. In 6 battles with the same type of mob 3 armored 3 not...I was critted twice per mob without armor. I was only critted once in the three battles with armor on. Don't know that that is just a fluke but none the less...

WHEN the servers are back up I'm wanting to try Mage or maybe Priest... see what Cloth does as an armor ... Probably NON existant effect ... Since leather only reduced it by 20%.

Thanks again and enjoy the game ... I'm STILL not fond of wolfs droping chain armor, shields and swords ... How did they ever swallow a 2hs ?

[DashZero]

Loot drops:

Creatures do drop some appropriate stuff. Humanoids drop cloth, wolves drop claws, etc.

Then there are quest items that are also creature appropriate. Only Scarlet fanatics drop Scarlet bandanas, etc.

Finally there is some random additional loot drop that seems random across all mobs. This is the mechanic that drops chain armor on a spder, etc.

Good thing: You can't camp a mob for the special loot. It could drop anywhere.

Bad thing: loss of immersion

[Larstark]

Being able to use better armor has no noticible effect.

Cloth or Plate ... same amount of damages ... or very close.

IF you are noticing any difference then the armor has stat bonus that is giving the difference. BUT if you use Cloth or Plate sold by a merchant that does not have any Stat bonus. There is NO noticible change.

Sorry my oppinion stays the same:

WoW is just LAME programing.

AND yes SOME drops are valid. HOWEVER when I dropped a Saltwater Croc in STV a few days ago and out came: Locked Iron Lockbox ... I wonder why and where he was holding that?\\

Just waiting for the account to go now ... sure wish some one could program better games.

[meffio]

/rant on

Iam glad that you are leaving WoW. You have no clue what it is like at the End game and that armor bonuses that come from it. You can not make a decision about a game till you have been there and if your out killing crocks in STV you not there.

Take it form me iam a level 60 Priest and trust me when I say the Armor means the world. When a level 62+ (elite ) starts smacking you around you will see the HUGE diffrence between armor or not. I dont mean to sound like a jackass or anything but you have no clue.

When you can raid Strath, Scholo, UBRS and LBRS on a regular basis and say the armor dont make a diffrence then you have a place to complain. Other then that dont waste my time saying stuff you have no clue about.

/rant off

For the Honor of the Horde.

[DashZero]

Hey Meif!

I assume you are right, but it would be great if you tried the experiment as detailed in this post.

Does the % mentioned in the character detail screen seem to match up with the difference in damage you take?

Try the armor on/armor off test and post results - that should kill this thread once and for all.

[meffio]

Have been there done that.

Armor, and for a priest, our armor buff, makes a HUGE diffrence. I can survive 6-8 hits from a mob in UBRS buffed to the max with armor. Without I last maybe 3 and thats if he dont get a crit in on me. Gear makes a total diffrence in this game at higher levels, But if i was to do the experment in a newbie zone then the resuls are basicly the same, maybe 2-3 points diffrent.

So in my experiance, I can say that Armor make a diffrence and can consider this case CLOSED

For the Honor of the Horde

[Larstark]

((I do not beleive Meffio can read)).

I have NEVER gotten an ARMOR buff from a Priest. So Meffio I don't know what your talking about. The buff Priests have placed me is a Stamina buff called Power Word Fortitude ... The Buff increases my hit points. With the warrior one day an UBBER priest cast that buff on me and it added over 1k hit points to my total... Nice Buff BTW Meffio... you can put it on my characters for the next couple weeks!

Priests can only wear Cloth also Meffio. So your saying armor makes a HUGE difference is invalid. Use a Warrior or Pally ... some one that can wear plate. You WILL see that the damages taken is not very different from Plate to cloth using chain and leather in between those. It SHOULD make a big difference but doesn't.

I faced down some 40+ Basklisks in STV the other day ... Have I made it yet? (Just Kidding) As big as those things are I can see that their stomache might be big enough to hold the armor and swords I was getting from them.

Going to go look around the BADLANDS some more. Those Two Headed Ogres there have some funny things they like to leave behind....Again one is showing me a Mace when he's hitting on me .. but droped a very nice two hander .... Why wasn't he using that?

Just for fun: Any one else think that when you put a Shield in your BP it should take up more room than a Light Feather? OOPPPSSS here she goes again with that believability issue again.

13 days left .. any one know a better RP game?

[meffio]

Please dont ever insult me again with you petti comments; IE I dont belive Meifftor can read.

Again you dont know what your talking about. Priests wear cloth armor, this is true, so do mages and warlocks. We all have our own self buff that increases our armor. For a Priest its called Inner Fire, Mages its called Frost armor and Warlocks its called Demon Armor. With out these buffs on ourself we are basicly wearing paper. But with My armor buff iam in the 2500AC range. I know that dont compare to a Tanks but it is still a huge diffrence.

So once again please dont post on stuff you have no clue about. 13 days and the World of Warcraft will be a better place.

PS. Go play FFXI you will probally have more fun there with the drops that you get there and how their armor system works.

[Larstark]

Meffio ... IF you can in fact read then read my first post.

[Balandar]

Topic closed.