Martok Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Read the descriptions of guild government. Which is best? There are four basic types of Government Systems a player-run Guild can choose from when establishing their guild: Monarchy: All leadership functions are controlled exclusively by the Guild Leader. No one has the power to depose the Guild Leader except the leader himself. Oligarchy: The Inner Council controls the guild. This type of Government is created by a group who wish to share power only between themselves (the Inner Council), and retain that power indefinitely. Though members of the Inner Council may step down, nobody has the power to depose them. Republic: Members ultimately have a say in Guild Management, but there is a level of separation between them and the Guild Leader. Ultimately, the Guild is managed by an Inner Council to whom the Guild Leader is answerable. Unlike an Oligarchy, however, members of the Inner Council are chosen (and can be removed) by the Membership. Democracy: Each member of the Guild has equal say in Guild Leadership. The Guild Leader and Inner Council run the Guild, but are accountable to and can be removed by the membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluim Aster Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 I suppose the question could be asked if the results of this poll would have any affect upon the actual outcome of what it will be...but I would like to note that if it were to be a democracy in SB then this poll would be the first step of the democratic process....then again we could always just go with monarchy but keep our system the same, we'd just have to trust the emperor to listen to his senate and whatnot (which of course we do). *shrugs* I suppose I can't mark one of them since I can make arguements for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 I say that if we have a true resemblance to the Roman Empire and the movie Gladiator, then we should follow the dreams of the great Marcus Auerilius and Maximus and make sure the Senate has power. REPUBLIC! REPUBLIC!! :argue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 I first entered into PGoH Leadership on July 4, 1999. In that time I have seen the devastating effects of a virtual "Republic" where the senate has the power. While he is portrayed as a villian within the movie, the character of Commodous says it perfectly....."It takes an Emperor to rule an Empire" While that may not hold true to the great planet we call Earth, it does within a small orginization of virtual gamers. Our Codex, as it is written, revolves around the Emperor being the authority, with the Senate advising and such. I have found that this is the only type of government where things actually get done......and......something that really ticked me off in the movie was when Senator Falco said, "Well, why not? Rome was founded as a Republic" That is not true at all.....when Rome was founded it was a Monarchy.....good ole Romulus. Therefore, I will support the Monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluim Aster Posted July 29, 2001 Share Posted July 29, 2001 Interesting response from the emperor isn't it... I'm not saying that you are wrong just that it seems it was almost manditory for you to say that. In my opinion the reason the senate hasn't worked well is because those who were appointed were suddenly the most recluse people in the guild. I think it must be part of being a politician, as soon as you have power you immediately separate yourself from those below you, the very people whom you are to represent. I'd step lightly as the sole leader of a guild, you may feel you have the reigns to do whatever you wish but as you've pointed out its not the real world and to simply leave is done with a great deal more ease than it would be done in real life. Monarchies worked in RL because those on the bottom were the most tied to the land that the King or Emperor had control over... that's not so much true in an Online game. Like I said earlier, there are arguements for each but I caution my dear Greg to remember that with great power comes great responsibility. :ashamed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Brightblade Posted July 29, 2001 Share Posted July 29, 2001 I'd have to agree with Greg. Its great everyone can have input on a given issue but when push comes to shove someone needs to say "the buck stops here and thats the way things are going to be". Also democracies are great in theory but in truth this planet has not seen one function yet. The US is a democratic republic and "equal voice" pretty much ends after the election then your elected official speaks in the stead of the masses. *shrugs* Still the best damn nation on earth though it seems the moral fiber of some of our leaders is severly lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Posted July 29, 2001 Share Posted July 29, 2001 I could in most parts actually agree with monarchy as long as the rules are set down. I guess the word "empire" means that we are ruled by an emperor. I'm just wondering what it means to BE emperor though?? This is no shot at you Greg, but since i've been a member i've only seen you 2 times in about 4 months. I'm just wondering what the senario is going to be like in shadowbane?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluim Aster Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 I think that we need to keep our representatives at least in name if not in any thing else. Everybody needs somebody to take thier point of view to the top. It is one thing to have a decision made that you disagree with when you have no weight in changing it and an entirely different thing when you at least have a voice in those that make the decisions ears. The thing of it is, is that PGoH is very much a community that we all add to and that we all have worked hard to improve...Haveing a single leader can and will get things done but how can we be entirely sure that it will be what we want as a whole? Lord knows that there have been schisms in the past. I can not speak for everyone but I very much believe that the guild belongs to us all. If you want real life examples all you have to look at a dictatorship to see that supreme power for one person often means bad things for the masses. I'd like to again pose the question if this thread is actually going to impact what the goverment is going to be. If it is I believe that we are on a good track. If not I cannot say as to what our path in SB might be. In a monarchy no one has the power to depose the standing leader... does that mean that the leader cannot step down? What happens if the emperor stops playing SB? Does that mean that PGoH stops in SB with him? Would that mean that if we wanted to continue our guild we would have to basically start anew? Seeing as names in SB are unique I can only guess that we would no longer be able to call ourselves PGoH... I realize that all of this falls into the hypothetical but still these are possibilities and I believe that being prepared is one of the most important things in life. Furthermore a government that consists of several people would make for more of an interesting RP. There could be in game councils which would shape our characters as we are shaping the world of SB. I just want to make sure that if we choose a monarchy we are choosing it for the right reasons. I'm certain that it would bring things to fruition with greater haste however haste hasn't always proven sound. PGoH is a large guild and it seems naive to think that one person could rule it with full knowledge of what each decision will impact and whom it may affect. The new world of SB offers an interesting platform since when we get there we will all be relatively equal... I would have to say that it will take a lot of work if one person wants to lead the guild and do it well. In the past I have seen the most work done by those of a medium rank... high enough to have the emperor's ear yet still able to relate to those below him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldren Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Quote from Aluim Aster, posted on In a monarchy no one has the power to depose the standing leader... does that mean that the leader cannot step down? What happens if the emperor stops playing SB? Does that mean that PGoH stops in SB with him? Would that mean that if we wanted to continue our guild we would have to basically start anew? I think the answer to that lies in how the guildsystem of SB works.. If its like UO, it's possible to overthrow the guild leader by everyone swearing freailty to another... But to do that every alt of that emperor also has to swear freailty to another.. Not sure if that's how guilds work now, but back when I was in LDN we overthrew our stones guildleader by all of us swearing freailty to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 It seems that based on this thread so far, their is a propensity towards a Republic. This allows for the Emperor to be in charge, but with a say based on the inner council which is in itself appointed by the guild members. In an ideal world this will work well, but as some others have pointed out, in a virtual setting often times it is difficult to get committment from all the neccessary parties to effectively be present to get things done. In Shadowbane the main difference is the real ability for guild members to make changes if they are not satisfied. If we have absentee council members the power rests with the people to remove them from office. It will be most interesting to see how this system actually operates in game dynamics as opposed to on paper. I share the same view with Aluim that you an make good points for several of the government structures, but ultimately we should look at what will work the most effectively in game as opposed to in theory. If that is a Republic so be it, if it turns out a Monarchy will be more effective then fine. Based on the dynamics of this game and its complexity, I am sure that guild government will be dynamic as well, meaning we will have the ability to change it as we grow and learn what works. My two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koopsta Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Oh Im sure there wont be a problem with "getting committment from all the neccessary parties to effectively be present to get things done." Unlike UO as of late, Im sure for the first 3 months at least everyone will be on 24/7... That is of course if shadowbane lives up to all this hype and is not a bug filled turd.... :sleep: And wasnt Romulous and Remus rasied by a wolf or something? Isnt that a myth? *tries to remember history class* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Aluim brings up an interesting point, one which does sway me a bit towards a Republic.....the one single item that sparks my interest is the fact that the membership can oust Inner-Council members, but can the Membership also oust the Guild Leader? And Lan, have no fear, unlike the lifeless land of you know what your dear Emperor will spend every waking minute within the land of Aerynth. Pending answers to the above questions.......I support a Monarchy with a chance of Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluim Aster Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 The answer to how the guild system works Coldren is right in the description of the guild. If it is a Monarchy, NO ONE has the power to depose the guild leader except the leader himself. This was the point to that quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 In a republic, I believe the inner council members can be replaced by the populace but not the guild leader himself. I could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martok Posted July 30, 2001 Author Share Posted July 30, 2001 A republic is an all around good choice. Remember: The guild leader and the "inner circle" or council are the only ones that can control the tree of life and guild functions. In certain types of government, such as the monarchy, only the Guild Leader can control such things. What happens if we finally realize our dream of a city....and it is under seige? What happens if our Guild Leader is not around, or on vacation, and we are a monarchy??? We will watch our city be destroyed before our very eyes!!!! Anything but a monarchy is preferred. I don't go along with the democracy bit....it would be constant turmoil. Too much politics there....too much kissing arse when other problems will be at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluim Aster Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Quite right Martok, you have a good point. I think that a democracy would only be a good choice if we were a very small guild and hopefully that won't be the case. Sounds like a Republic is the government of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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