Alignment of our Guild

[Martok]

Chaotic Good

Chaotic good characters are strong, individualists marked by a streak of kindness and benevolence.  They believe in all the virtues of goodness and right, but they have little use for the laws and regulations.  They have no use for people who "try to push folk around and tell them what to do."  Their actions are guided by their own moral compass which. although good, may not always be in perfect agreement with the rest of society.

[Wolf]

Further to our alignment we have established some key milestones that will enable us to move forward to shape our migration into the world of Shadowbane.

Guild Type:  Noble House

Government: Oligarchy

Guild Name: Lords of Ardan (Ardan was the original paradise for mankind in the Shadowbane lore)

Guild History: Current advisors pre-date the turning. Geneology traced back to the first men. (Storyboard being completed)

Objective: RP guild who's charter is to unite the world under one banner, ours thus restoring balance and order.

Web Site: Theme has been settled.  Final completion iminent.

[Siun]

I take exception to the name "Lords of Ardan". I think it completely excludes women. I would suggest a generic term like "Champions of Ardan" or "Saints of Ardan" or "Knights of Ardan" - get my point?

I really hope you reconsider. I think you could lose out on female membership, and wouldn't that be a loss?

Unless of course you want it to be a male only guild?

[Balandar]

I take exception to the name "Lords of Ardan". I think it completely excludes women. I would suggest a generic term like "Champions of Ardan" or "Saints of Ardan" or "Knights of Ardan" - get my point?

I really hope you reconsider. I think you could lose out on female membership, and wouldn't that be a loss?

Unless of course you want it to be a male only guild?

Lol! I told you guys she would have something to say about the name.  

[Wolf]

Not meant to be exclusionary.  Meant to factor in a name that denotes power and ancestry.  Being that geneology follows patriarchal lines, it seemed to be the best way to weave that component into the guild itself.  A lore based reason for our charter as opposed to Guardians or Champions etc...The other term we were looking at was Scions, but felt that the word would be too unfamiliar to a large percentage of the player base, thus losing its impact.

[Lan]

LOL Bal! Siun, its not meant to be anything against you and we really did bring it up in the meeting.  Wolf is right, its only about the ancestory and its a good powerful name that also sounds like an "empire"

[Siun]

Oh I had a feeling you already knew what I'd say, but it disturbs me to hear you perpetuate that only men (patriarchs) can be viewed as having "power". There is another set of guilds that are viewed as female-only: the Amazons. Would a male character be comfortable in that mold? I doubt it. They'd be viewed as less than equal.

You guys are on one side of the fence, and I have to tell you that it is viewed as exclusionary by women. I wish you could understand that. I would not/will not join a guild called Lords of *Fill in the blank*.

Grab a thesaurus, guys. Why not try: Rulers, Masters, Captains, Sovereigns, Regents, Leaders, Exalted, Palatine, Governors, Marshals, Chancellors, Nobles, etc.

You really think "Lords" is the best you can do? For shame.

[Lord Ser Brightblade]

I think the title should be Macho Muscular Men of Ardan Who Dance in our Loincloth while Boasting to our Women (MMAWDLBW).

Ok perhaps that won't work because it's a bit too long  

Personally I don't think it to be a major issue if we went with Scion.  A great deal of people into fantasy are definitly familiar with the term scion and that it refers to once decendants/ancestry.  Anyway lets just hope if we do go with scion we dont get confused as being a piece of plant that has been grafted onto another plant  

I gotta say I soooo happy about the CG alignment.  Its how I percieve myself in rl so roleplaying such should be fun.

[Borg]

CDP

Keep it clean...

Keep it calm...

Keep it respectful...

Sarcasm is never good.

Opinions are powerful things....and never wrong.

I am not within the Oligarchy (Dev Team) of SB LoA...but I vowed to support what they chose.

When appealing to the masses....KISS.....simple is good and with the fever around Mr Tolkeins "Lords of the....." trilogy hot on peoples mind....it will do well at the simple understanding of the overall base origin.  

Every Lord had a Lady.....and historically they did wield quite strong influence and respect within said kingdoms....I am sure everyone respects you Siun as a great Lady.  Gender is irrelevent in my opinion...it is the mind that is the metal, power and beauty....guildnamsakes are bullets or hotpoints to draw attention....not to be the complete end all description of what is within it.

[Siun]

It wasn't "Lords of the ..." it was LORD of the ring.

Every Lord has his Lady? What is that supposed to mean? I can't be a Lady unless I have a Lord? This paternalistic crap really bothers me. I can't believe you guys actually believe in this.

Gender is irrelevant if you are of the majority, or of the one that is chosen. If it is so irrelevant, then call the guild Ladies of Ardan. (*hard to say with a straight face*)

Brightblade's post was funny - I think he actually understands.

[Wolf]

From the standpoint of guild allegiance that is available within Shadowbane, we can facilitate an allied guild name such as "Ladies of Ardan" if female members feel that we are perpetuating a slight against all females with our choice of what is deemed an exclusionary name.  If someone is willing to take on that role.

Unfortunately for us, we had no females step up when we asked for volunteers for the dev team.  We've been working a good deal on getting these details finalized so that we can complete the guild structure to have an immmersive history and guild plan available immediately upon release

I honestly don't view this as "paternalistic crap"  Our storyboard that we are implementing is following geneology lines back to the beginning of time.  Again, it is part of the weave of our fabric.  In essence Ardan (as it once existed) "belongs" to us and although by modern day definitions, the term Lord or Lady may be antiquated, from a roleplay standpoint based in medieval/fantasy genre's it is typical.

[Martok]

I am all for the guild name we came up with.  Lords of Ardan.  I understand your position Siun, and if the majority of the group that has been working on Shadowbane decides to change the name, I am fine with that as well.  

Funny thing is, we even said, (can't remember who it was) "What do you think Siun is going to say when she sees the name?"

If we are going to do some adjustments to our guild name, it means BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.  I don't want to "settle" with something.  I am not content to opening up a thesaurus and saying that is ok.

Calm down Siun, my goodness.  I don't think I have ever seen you so worked up!  I swear I am not trying to laugh, but I picture how red your face was when typing those posts!

[Siun]

Funny thing is, we even said, (can't remember who it was) "What do you think Siun is going to say when she sees the name?"

The fact that you even thought it would be a probem should have rung a warning bell amongst yourselves. The fact you went ahead with it is disappointing to me.

Since you will be perpetuating the idea of Lords being the powerful in this medievil fantasy of yours, I hope you incorporate all the elements of this fantasy in your new guild rules. Namely: No women can hold titles of positions. Women must remain safe in the stronghold while the men fight, etc. Don't you see you can't separate the one part from the rest? When you allow yourselves to believe its ok 'because that's the way it was done then' - well you better accept all the traditions that went with it.

I have suggested alternates. I don't see why you have to go back to the drawing board if you merely change the name to "Nobles of Ardan" or "Gentry of Ardan" or "Landholders of Ardan" or "Heirs of Ardan" or "Posterity of Ardan" or "Descendants of Ardan" or "Scions of Ardan" or "Line of Ardan" What is the difference? They each tell the story you are trying to reveal.

[Lan]

Honestly Siun, because none of those names you came up with hold any type of Power wording.  When we are up against other guilds and such all those other names would just be sub-guilds of "Lords of Ardan"

Lords is an eyecatcher and screams of power to be dealt with very carefully

[Araton]

I think she makes a legitimate point and I'm rather surprised at the phlegmatic way in which you guys are responding.

Personally, I don't think a name should be selected for its ability to "catch peoples eyes." It should be chosen for the image that it evokes when people read it. Its true that the word "Lord" elicits a feeling of power, but I think the way its used in the guild name is deceiving. People will read "Lords of Ardan" and think: "wow, I can join this guild and be a Lord of Ardan!" They will then be filled with disappointment when they find out upon joining that they are, in fact, only a serf of Ardan   I'm not so sure that naming the guild after the ruling body is such a great idea. Clique based guilds tend to fail. I think it might be a better idea to try to instill a sense of team and group ownership in our members. Maybe something like: The Order of Ardan.

I love the proper noun though hehe  

-Araton

[Lan]

Again though Araton, the Order of Ardan sounds like a sub-guild title that can be held in the realm.  Its like the clerics or the army of the guild that can be a subset.  We are also creating a great background to go with the guild title "Lords of Ardan" which I think actually will entail everyone who joins becomes a "Lord" of some sort.  I think the image that this name evokes onto others is great and I believe will also attrack others to want to join our guild.  This is a guild based around being an Empire, and Empire's need to have strong names.

Only the Strong Survive

[Siun]

Having been told that I am taking things way too far because of my opinions, I am bowing out of this discussion and this guild allignment. Good luck, guys. I'm sure your guild will do materially well since there will be lots of that type of game-player who willl join. About how it does in the roleplaying-character-development side, I hold deep reservations. I wish you well and hope you keep the Guild Name that suits you best.

[Martok]

Yes, we will do quite well I am sure.  We have a deep lore set up (thanks wolf and araton) and a good basis for the start of the guild.  Greg has everything planned perfectly as to our goals and needs in game.  

As far as our roleplaying in game, the roleplaying aspect is what the guild leadership makes it.  If we are soft, the guild will be soft, if we are strict in our roleplaying, the guild will be strict in their roleplaying.

[Araton]

Yea thats a good point, this first guild is going to be the center point of a vast empire at some point so it needs to have the strongest name. I keep thinking about it as a brand new guild right after we start it. Now it makes sense.  

-Araton

[Greg]

I have to say......I at first did not like the name......Lords of Ardan.....it was just to simple and didn't do it for me......but as I thought more and more about it......and envisioned the founders of the guild sitting around a table.....it became apparant that the name was just what wee needed.