Molten Core: Policies

[Maube]

Alright folks. As always, events of this nature may cause some big Drama. However, I will do my best to make sure things are fair and try to keep everyone happy!

At 7:00pm Invites will start. After 8:00pm those not signed up on the forums will have a chance for invites. Please try to be in the mountain before 8:30 since the first pull will be at 8:30. BE BUFFED AND READY TO PULL AT 8:30! If you know you are going to be late... or stuck in the Queue and are signed up, park your butt outside the instance before hand, and message me in xfire. Xfire is a program that lets me know in game when you are sending me a message. maube is my handle. Poor Warlocks arent there just to summon lazy butts =) From here on in... if you wait until the last minute and expect a summon... it will be a 5 gold charge to the warlock who is wasting a shard which could be better used for Healthstones and Soulstones =p I could always work out some DKP points being awarded and taken away... but right now... expect to pay up if you are too lazy to get your arse to the mountain on time!

We will be using Zero Sum DKP

Zero Sum means that members gain DKP via how many DKP points are spent on the items that drop on a raid, divided by how many attended that raid. (Instead of the traditional, where a monster would have a certain DKP value assigned to it that all members would get after the monster was killed).

DKP Tiers are used for determining loot. This system does not suffer from the "old members have insane amounts of DKP that will never be spent" syndrome (or at least, much less so than other systems). Tiers also allow new members to the guild to have the possibility to win loot instead of having to gain DKP over months and months and never be able to compete against those that have been around for a long time.

This DKP system has evolved from a system built 3 years ago to simply keep track of who won what, to what it is today, a full featured system with pretty much any feature you could possibly want.

Patterns will not be considered part of DKP. They are things that best benefit us without gimping out the people who want to save their DKP for class items and buffs to their own character. Those crafters who win these items will NOT charge for their services. They will be done at material cost no more.

DKP price list: DKP Site link: http://crusher.core.eti.br/mc/

25 DKP for quest items and Nexus Crystals

50 DKP for Tier One Set Pieces

100 DKP for Accessories(Epic) and weapons

125 DKP for Tier 2

In Game DKP Commands:

Sending a whisper to Maube with the following will net you results

!dkp = your current DKP total, this does NOT take into account any recent deductions in the current raid

!bid = lets you bid for the item currently up for purchase

!list = gives you the list of folks bidding for the item

!help = gives you a menu of the ! commands

DO NOT JOKE BID. I do get confuzzled =)

People Who are first timers with the raid can only roll on tier armor pieces should their turn come up.

Should something get Disenchanted... the Nexus Crystal will be up for purchase for 25DKP.

Should someone come into the raid late and assist in taking down a Boss, they are eligible to spend their DKP on the boss's drops, however, if the DKP is close (up to 5 points) between someone who came in late and someone who already helped take down prior bosses, the player who was helping from the start will get priority. Thank you to Xaos for pointing out this. However, keep in mind that in most instances, DKP from drops during the raid are not factored in until AFTER THE RAID CONCLUDES. But once you purchase an item, you have that DKP deducted from your current account.

For example. Player A has been to every raid, but has passed on the set items for his class because he already has them. Garr drops his helm, he wants it, so he gets it at top DKP. 50 dkp is subtracted from his total. He is still 50 points ahead of the next of his class. Geddon goes down and his next piece drops. he is still the highest of his class with DKP.

Signups are posted on our Signup Page http://signup.core.eti.br/characters.php

People with the 6WK attendance get priority in moving from the Queue to the Raid proper however I reserve the right to use my judgement on class fiddling. If we are tackling something different, 7 of one class might be more useful then having 5 of each. Talk to me in whispers if you have any concerns. I dont play Favoritism, I play what is best for the raid =)

On Quest Items: Quest items go to the Class member with the highest Lifetime DKP

Mogbertha- Grats on the first Leaf!

Odenn

On Attendance:

we need everyone to be on the ball and put in the effort and remember, this isnt just about one or two people, this is about 39 other people who depend on each other... so be courteous, if you need to bow out of the raid... please let someone know ASAP. Email, Private Message, Xfire, Post on the forums, in game letter, SOMETHING =)

Also, on Cores and Leather

These items will go into a 'Raid Bank' to gear out regulars in FR gear. So for instance, if we have three warriors who show up continuesly and prove to be strong tanks, they will get first dibs on Dark Iron plate that gets made. Same goes for the clothwearers. Maube has the patterns for a good many Flarecore items therefore those will be able to made as well as the guild has Leatherworkers who can make Leather and Mail with good FR. However, PLEASE TRY TO GET SOME FIRE resist on your own!

Main Tank Core Gearing:

Greenbull - Dark Iron Helm, Dark Iron Bracers, Dark Iron Leggings and Fiery Chain shoulders

Alhazad - Dark Iron Helm, Dark Iron Bracers, Dark Iron Leggings, Dark Iron Gauntlets, Fiery Chain Shoulders

Relikk- Dark Iron Helm, Dark Iron Bracers, Dark Iron Leggings, Dark Iron Gauntlets, Fiery Chain Shoulders

Raid Gearing

Scryll - Lava Belt

Roh - Lava Belt

Chemmy - Flarecore shoulders

Verissi - Flarecore shoulders

Maube - Flarecore shoulders

Kalrash - Flarecore shoulders

Mogbertha - Fiery Chain Shoulders

Gordantell - Fiery Chain Shoulders

Gorrin - Dark Iron Helm

Vrugz - Flarecore shoulders

Molox - Flarecore shoulders

Sianora - Corehound Boots

Lomar - Dark Iron Helm

Odenn - Fiery Chain Shoulders

Grawuulf - Corehound Boots

Thundertotem - Black Dragonscale Boots

Raid Bank If you would like to spend your DKP on the BOEs in the Bank, contact Maube for more information

Arcanist Bindings

Arcanist Belt

Felheart Belt X3

REPAIR YOUR GEAR: Do NOT come into the Core with anything below 90% Durability unless YOU have all the materials to make a repair bot. They are Expensive to make. If you are not a Main Tank or a Main Healer and you call for a repair bot on the first 3 bosses, you will have DKP deducted and given to the engineer that brings the Repair Bot. They are NOT cheap to make.

Teamspeak is a usefull tool. We would like to keep idle chatter to a minimum, so if someone says something of import, please listen! We do want to have fun, but giving raid leaders a headache makes for a cranky raid leader

Posted By Volonazra:

A note on the use of Teamspeak....

Part of the benefit of TS is the enjoyment of the personal company of the people involved, but also it is a tool to make leading such things as MC much more efficient. When one part starts to prohibit the other, there will be problems. Too much party time leads to less advancement and too much overbearing efficiency leads to less enjoyment. Either extreme is not what anyone wants.

Part of our guild culture is the light, easy going, fun atmosphere. Fun and games are welcome (if not manditory), but remember there are 39 other people to be conciderate of as well. Nobody has the right to make our mates, and especially not our guests, uncomfortable. More importantly, the leaders must to be able to do their job without fighting over chatter nor repeating themselves. When its time to setup and take down a boss it is critical that the channel be clear. Know who is leading, listen for them, and give them the ability to manage the raid unhampered.

See you all in the Core.

CTraid is also a must have for this raid, be you healer, tank DPS, anything. PLease download and use it, even just for this raid. We cant afford chaos and confusion

GET CTRAID

We will post the DKP numbers weekly on the forums so you can take a peek at your standing.

Patterns:

Katakorintha: Core Marksman Rifle, Biznik's Accurascope

Verissi: Biznicks Accurascope

Greenbull: Elemental Sharpening stones

Korgall: Elemental Sharpening Stones

Gromit: Accurascope whatever whatever =p

Kalrash: Spell Power Enchant

Arzenic: Felcloth Shard Bag

Raeda: Core Armor Kit

Edited July 13, 2006 by Maube

[Chrysalia]

Do we have, or do we plan to install DKP tracking on the website? eqdkp.com has really evolved into a great system.

[greenbull]

It would be nice to define the cost of some items, like, epic set items, misc epic items, recipes/plans, blue items...

For 40 man raid I think that those values must be a little inflated (or the calculations will always end in small or fractionary numbers).

[Wolf]

Aside from main tanks and main healers. Whatever happened to those that need it whose gear is inferior roll, those that don't need, don't roll, like we've done forever with any runs. I just don't understand why a complex system has to go in place when there's "epic" loot at stake. It seems like the whole take care of your own goes out the window with everyone when it comes to these high end runs. Ah well, my 2 cents. For the record, I'm passing on anything someone else can use more than me regardless of points or any scoring system. I just honestly don't agree with any of them

[Maube]

The reason I want to use DKP Wuulf is that this is a high stakes place.

And being that you and I both have a tendancy to lose out on rolls the most... well Huato too... but he is pimped out... it would really suck to lose out on every piece that drops for a certain class. Zero sum just makes sure that people technically take turns =)

[Waldonnis]

I think it also goes a bit beyond the stakes, but also is a function of the size of the raid compared to the amount of loot and the difficulty in obtaining it (both because of reset timers and it's on a different difficulty scale than UBRS, for instance). I've thought quite a bit about the same question and kept arriving back at needing a different loot system...especially since virtually none of us has anything that will be dropping in the instance and would be considered an upgrade for almost all of the participants (making every item "contested" on a 40-person scale as opposed to a 15-person scale).

Perhaps we'll eventually get to the point where another loot distribution system isn't necessary (which I too would enjoy doing), but for now it's probably something to start with and see how it goes. I think zero-sum sounds like a good and fair start. If it doesn't work out or causes problems, we can always rethink it and make adjustments.

[Huato]

Not only does it make people take turns, but with the need to fill the spots with a lot of outside members this makes the most sense from a fairness perspective. I'm all for the take care of your own too, but we also need to make sure that those that come along feel that they have a fair chance and that there is no appearances of favoritism amonst out guild.

As for me...I have everything I can get up to Gehennas (He drops my gloves), Garr (drops my helm), Baron Geddon (Shoulders), and Golemag (chest). I won't be rolling for any of the Shaman set pieces or spending points for them because I do already have them until we are going after Gehennas and the rest - then I will spend points for that gear, but that will be a few weeks out I suspect. That will help the other Shaman that come along get geared up.

[Volonazra]

A note on the use of Teamspeak....

Part of the benefit of TS is the enjoyment of the personal company of the people involved, but also it is a tool to make leading such things as MC much more efficient. When one part starts to prohibit the other, there will be problems. Too much party time leads to less advancement and too much overbearing efficiency leads to less enjoyment. Either extreme is not what anyone wants.

Part of our guild culture is the light, easy going, fun atmosphere. Fun and games are welcome (if not manditory), but remember there are 39 other people to be conciderate of as well. Nobody has the right to make our mates, and especially not our guests, uncomfortable. More importantly, the leaders must to be able to do their job without fighting over chatter nor repeating themselves. When its time to setup and take down a boss it is critical that the channel be clear. Know who is leading, listen for them, and give them the ability to manage the raid unhampered.

See you all in the Core.

[dugand]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=91...=geddon&pl=true

This just a little pointer for Geddon, ENJOY!!

[Maube]

Alrighty Guys I really hate to do this, but I need to limit the amount of shadow priests in the Core.

If you dont get bumped into the Raid one week, I will try to cycle you in and out.

I am not here to tell you how to play your classes, however 4 shadow priests is draining on the priest or priests that come with improved Fort and Spirit.

[Fomor]

Alrighty Guys I really hate to do this, but I need to limit the amount of shadow priests in the Core.

If you dont get bumped into the Raid one week, I will try to cycle you in and out.

I am not here to tell you how to play your classes, however 4 shadow priests is draining on the priest or priests that come with improved Fort and Spirit.

What about the Shadowpriest that has Improved Fort?

And the holy priest that doesn't have Prayer of Spirit?

Just curious because while I know buffing is a ######(I just respecced and was regularly casting both fort and spirit on half of the raid groups), the ability to keep people alive is the more important issue and tonight we had far less casualties than normal. That was with 3 shadow priests doing healing (Betel had comp issues or it would have been 4). Now with Inner Focus, I could put Imp Fort on the entire raid in about 3 minutes and I am not seeing where that is a burden. We had less priests tonight than we have had in weeks and we still got it done. I don't want to start yet another "this or that" debate, but blaming buffing abilities of Shadowpriests is like limiting Druids to those who only have improved Mark of the Wild. If there is some other issue though, please be forthright about it.

Yes this issue has me on the defensive because I did just switch back to Shadow from a Disc/Holy build, but things like this always irk me because we don't say "we have too many dagger rogues... or too many destruction warlocks". If we, the shadow specced priests, are not doing our jobs (healing/dispelling) then yeah, I see a problem, but if it because of buffs, well, a priest is the only class that can cast up to 3 group buffs and one of those requires a certain talent path... well, alienating members of a particular class from a raid on account of the fact that they want to be able to be effective outside of the raid as well as in (like every other class) just bothers me.

/rant off

[Waldonnis]

How did I know someone would take this personally within an hour of the post?

Oh, and for the record, we *have* said that we've had too many of one entire CLASS on some raids, regardless of their spec (try doing Onyxia without enough ranged DPS)....

Edited July 13, 2006 by Waldonnis

[Gorrin]

How did I know someone would take this personally within an hour of the post?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because it DOES single out, not only a specific class, but a specific talent line in that class.

One shouldn't be questioning why someone's taking it personally, but why someone needs to point out that fact as if it was something not warranted. It affects someone who plays the game, so of course they'll take it personally, just as I assume you'll think this is targetted at you (which it is).

However, Fomor did keep it quite civil, and never put anything insulting to others, simply stating his mind. Keep that in mind for the replies and this doesn't need to escalate. But as for me, well, I'm content with replying in the same manner.

[Huato]

We now also have more than one Resto spec Druid coming along too (thankfully )

That helps tremendously with healing....with my gear and spec, as long as I don't put all of my fire resist gear, my rejuvs tick for 310 each time. I can, on a crit, heal nearly 5k hp with healing touch. That makes a huge difference in the healing area. We also have more Druids along now and that also helps.

I don't think anyone is saying that Shadow priests can't buff or heal as good as the other spec...we know they can with the right gear. I think it comes down to at times seeing shadow priests dps'ing when they should be healing. It's like Shaman and Druids too...they too have dps specs but are able to heal. Anytime I brought Huato when he was specced elemental or enhance I always stuck to healing when we fought bosses and the Molten Giant/Destroyer combos since they have such a high damage output potential on the tanks. While it's more important to heal on the bosses, lava packs, and giants encounters, everyone should be helping to heal their groups during every trash mob that can heal. It keeps the raid alive and moving through the instance faster, and also helps keep down the repair bills. Plate wearers have it the worst, then it goes down from there based on type of armor, but it still isn't cheap. Zuato's leather is cheaper to repair than Huato's mail, but it still gets costly in a hurry if I die alot. I cringe to think what our tanks have to pay when I can't get a heal off in time.

What it really boils down to in MC, BWL, Onyxia (to a lesser extent), AQ40, and now Naxxramas is that the healing classes have to heal for the raid to be successful. You can still dps in the 5/10/20 mans, or when allowed to by the raid/group leader. We're not saying that you have to respec or not come at all, just please be mindful of what is going on.

Overall we did very well last night. We had Shaz down by 11:30, and we had a few wipes, but we have come very far since we began.

[Martok]

I think it comes down to at times seeing shadow priests dps'ing when they should be healing. It's like Shaman and Druids too...they too have dps specs but are able to heal.

Correct Sir

And why I gave up and respec'd Uglutz to resto. Nevah get the chance to clomp!

[Huato]

Before I forget...one of the main things with buffing parties is the reagents. If you don't have the improved buff due to spec, a good compromise would be to bring a stack or two of the needed reagent to cast that buff. I know I've had people hand me a stack or two of Wild Thornroot for GoW, and I've been very appreciative of this. I don't mind buffing the entire raid, but it get's costly in a hurry. I try to bring 3 stacks of the stuff every run because there have been times I've used close to 60 of them in a night. That's around 4 gold if I have to buy all 60 each run(would be cheaper if I would pvp with Zu a little to get to seargent and get the added 10% discount).

[Maube]

Okay listen folks.

I played a Shadow Priest in the Core.

I was put on the Main Tank as a Shadow Priest.

That raid had 4 shadow priests.

That raid was stuck on Magmadar for weeks, stuck on Garr for weeks, can barely take Sulfuron down NOW.

As a priest in the Sulfuron encounter when WWs tried to have 2 shadowpriests doing the dispelling we failed due to lack of Mana and efficiency. they put a holy and a disc priest on the dispells and we succeeded but not without difficulty. Allentrace with 8k mana runs out of mana before the second priest is down, I run out faster because I dont have the mana pool.

When I saw that in the smaller instances it was taking us longer to get through BECAUSE of my spec I said you know what, I rolled this priest to help the guild out, so I respecced to Discipine.

You can play shadow. However, I want to proceed past MC, and I know that 4 shadows are not going to cut it in BWL and I KNOW that 4 shadow priests means NAxx is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past our abilties and gear. I am not telling anyone to respec. I am saying as Raid Leader, I would rather have a resto druid or Shaman (which we have a lot of folks respeccing to to help the raid as a whole) then that 4th shadow priest.

I never said I will not bring a Shadow priest into the Core, HOWEVER I said I would limit the amount who come week after week. I never said the Shadow Priests werent doing there job. All I said is that I want the raid to progress and the ability to get MC down to one night a week. And that is going to require myself rotating folks in and out to try and be as fair as possible. For all the people that complain to the THREE, count that THREE mages who come about Arcane Intellect, I spent most of last night Without Fortitude. Only one of hte mages is really able to buff anytime any where because verissi is master looter and I am trying to look ahead and keep everything moving.

We wouldnt have gotten ANYWHERE if Alhazad and Greenbull refused to play Protection. As it stands we do have too many warriors, I would LOVE to have more Mages/Warlocks/Hunters for the ranged DPS, but before we got past Geddon we had a helluvah hard time filling the raid, 80% of these folks dealth with massive repair bills to learn Geddon.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Maube

[katakorinthia]

.. never one to mix words or play the civics game let me just throw this out there for you.. shadow spec priests have uses, they are fun, an they can help a raid..

that being said having 4 or more in a molten core raid isnt very useful... if you want to take part in raids every week then you >WILL< have to make some choices.. The problem here is that you >CAN< have your cake an eat it too.. if you want to play a shadow spec priest there is no reason you shouldnt, but you have to realize that dropping into shadowform is not going to assist the rain in any way.. We have mages, rogues an warlocks who will make your damage rather insignificant.. An who >CAN< not assist in any way as a healer thus putting them in their lil damage niche. If you want to spec your character thats fine, but pick up a nice set of greens with +healing on them >JUST< for when your raiding.. Once you move onto something like BWL, which we hopefully will at some later date, not having PERFECT class balance will result in utter failure..

.. this is a play your character our way in the raid or we wont let you in, its we have a VERY large need for healers to make the raid NOT ONLY FUNCTIONAL, but possible. If you dont have the healing I dont care if there are a billion tanks an a billion dps'er its a wipe everytime... SO putting a limit on a primary healer class that is essential is just par for the course.. or if you want having those shadow priests (who lack the talent boosts) in greens that give them +400 healing (tazzak had all that with just greens) will make it EASIER for everyone.. Running around in full shadow damage gear with +50 to healing is a waste NO if, ands or but's.. If you dont like it then send a nice pointed letter to blizzard for ramping up the difficulty on each progressive dung. to the point where perfect balance is the only option..

in the end play the character you like, but if you want to be >apart< of something, then you have to make consessions.. if it means sending me a tell asking for money for healing gear go for it.. I rather see that then +damage priests who cant keep up with the rest of the healers, an this isnt against ANYONE in particular or even about last nights raid but in general..

[Maube]

Oh and my comment about Imp Fort...

People were being told last night that 'Oh I cant fort you because I dont have the improved fort'

I am frazzled due to sleeping pills and having a plain ole ######ty week =p the train of my thought isnt obvious to everyone and I apologize for your lack of being able to read my mind

[Waldonnis]

One shouldn't be questioning why someone's taking it personally, but why someone needs to point out that fact as if it was something not warranted. It affects someone who plays the game, so of course they'll take it personally, just as I assume you'll think this is targetted at you (which it is).

It was simply an observation, not a question as to why someone would take it personally. If that's perceived as unwarranted, I daresay that the entire rant could've been handled in a PM to Maube rather than in a public forum which would invite commentary.

Honestly, I don't care how anyone specs or if they even chose not to get talents at all. Having two feral druids currently (one Alliance-side), I know all about being singled out, so please don't assume that nobody else understands why someone would rant. I just don't think the intention of Maube's post was to force a spec on anyone or alter their playstyle, as was the implication.

[Cwn]

Since Maube posted it in an open forum, I expect it was assumned to be a topic for open discussion.

[Maube]

being that it was posted on the Policies and Procedures I was just letting folks know what the policy is on Shadow Priests. That there will be a limit on how many make it into the raid. not once did I say 'Spec out or you wont be coming' it is a matter of what is best for the raid. Hell we COULD have 12 warriors coming every week. Do we, no. I am to the point that if we all want to see Ragnaros go down, I have to be more picky on who makes the raid. I DID state however that I will try to rotate the shadow priests in and out to try and keep it fair for everyone. Please dont dwell on the negatives people. I am bending over backwards to try to keep people happy, and some people dont want to bend with me which makes it a lot harder =p I am not a very limber person. damn Polish Genes.

I keep all my raid policys out in the open, I COULD have just not moved folsk into the raid and not explained myself, many raid leaders do just that. That being said, if this discussion wants to continue, please start another thread as this is the Raid Leader's Thread for MOLTEN CORE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.

Thank you,

Maube

Edited July 13, 2006 by Maube

[Martok]

Yes, seperate thread please. I have copied and pasted the original post Maube had, pinned it to the top. Unpinning this one as its the discussion thread now.

Ug not good at this stuff. Lets see if I can crash the forums.