Rogue question...

Waldonnis · June 2, 2006

Well, I've totally botched up Tobalaya's spec, but mostly from trying a few things out and never undoing them. I know that I'd like to stick to daggers primarily, though, since I won't be running MC or above and will probably do some farming/world PvP with him mostly (along with the usual instances, so I'm keeping improved sap and will likely stick to a hemo/stunlock-friendly build by moving more talent points away from combat and into assassination...I can respec to tweak as needed).

My questions more involve weapons...and what I should be trying for both main and offhand. I've considered having a Heartseeker made, but the materials just seem excessive for what I'd be getting (a fine dagger, but still) and am not really familiar enough with rogue loot to know what better or comparable daggers drop and where to get them. It just seems like there is more of a selection than I've ever had to deal with on the casters or druid and haven't had to think about off-hands before as anything but a passive stat buff item, so it's a tad confusing at times.

Any thoughts from our dagger rogues? Also, I wouldn't mind hearing more about the sword-based builds even though I'm not leaning that direction right now...one can never have too much information

Scryll · June 2, 2006

Well, I've totally botched up Tobalaya's spec, but mostly from trying a few things out and never undoing them. I know that I'd like to stick to daggers primarily, though, since I won't be running MC or above and will probably do some farming/world PvP with him mostly (along with the usual instances, so I'm keeping improved sap and will likely stick to a hemo/stunlock-friendly build by moving more talent points away from combat and into assassination...I can respec to tweak as needed).
My questions more involve weapons...and what I should be trying for both main and offhand. I've considered having a Heartseeker made, but the materials just seem excessive for what I'd be getting (a fine dagger, but still) and am not really familiar enough with rogue loot to know what better or comparable daggers drop and where to get them. It just seems like there is more of a selection than I've ever had to deal with on the casters or druid and haven't had to think about off-hands before as anything but a passive stat buff item, so it's a tad confusing at times.

Any thoughts from our dagger rogues? Also, I wouldn't mind hearing more about the sword-based builds even though I'm not leaning that direction right now...one can never have too much information

Have you consulted the loot list site in the sticky above? I find it to be an invaluable resource for itemization for all classes. I'm not particularly familiar with Hemo/stuns needs, unfortunately, but I know many dagger rogues say good things about the Barman's Shanker, which isn't at all hard to acquire, and will probably serve your mainhand needs until you can find something really tasty, like the Felstriker. Looking at it, Heartseeker isn't bad. Intrinsic stat buffs aren't much of a concern for us, AFAIK, partly because our weapons so rarely give us any. DPS and weapon speed are the most important concerns for your offhand, you want it to be hitting hard, and you want procs as often as you can get them. I know all our dagger rogues live Alcor's, but it is just a LITTLE hard to get.

Waldonnis · June 2, 2006

I've looked at the loot list, but it gets a bit rough to deciphre what is desirable for a particular spec choice...there are swords listed, non-specific daggers (that don't specify MH-only), etc. From what I gather, common advice centres around a fast dagger OH for poison application and a slower dagger with a higher top-end damage for the mainhand to get the most out of ambush and backstab mechanics...but I haven't had much of a chance to really test this with my current equipment (still using a Coldrage in MH that I'd like to replace and have gone to a Hanzo sword for OH, which seems to be working out well). Is this advice pretty accurate? I realise that swords is much different as to how you deliver most of your damage (SS mechanics are obviously different), but I'm curious to know if the advice generally holds true there as well.

In all, it looks like Barman is probably the best choice for a "next step" MH weapon. The proc DoT will limit some stun options, but I can manage that. I'm not looking to jump to something like Alcor's unless I stumble across a second one (fat chance)...and am thinking that I'd be happy with some solid blue daggers since Toba's really a situational toon rather than my raiding main.

Thanks for the input, Scryll...I definitely appreciate it! I can't check the loot list from work, but I'll definitely be studying it closely again over the weekend.

Wolf · June 2, 2006

I've got a subtlety/assassin spec 21/8/22 with improved sap, backstab and ambush. Works great for all kinds of applications. I primarily use fist main hand (because of the Esh claw) with strong dagger offhand. I still use my Heartseeker (which I put a +4 damage enchant on) all the time for my openers i.e. ambush and backstab with a switch macro. Don't overlook maces. There's some good one hand maces out there that are also good for rogues. The barman shanker is a fairly easily obtained substitute for the heartseeker like Scryll said but the proc on it is terrible for use with stunlocks so for ongoing battles, not the best choice. For the longest time (before the claw) I was using Heartseeker mainhand with the shadowblade offhand. Served me very well. But don't neglect the weapon swap. Use your mainhand dagger for the initial strike and swap in a strong mace or sword for SS. Dagger swap back for backstabs. In pve it's butter. Much harder tactic in pvp as the target is not as accomodating

Crikrunner · June 3, 2006

Speed doesn't affect dmg for backstab, ambush, sinister strike any more they are all normalized off the weapon type. Unless the poison proc rate is like weapon procs (fixed x times per min ) having fast weapons for more poison applications seems to be the way to go. Having said that it is a minnute difference say on my 1.5 sword vs 2.2 sword, I dont seem to see many more procs. Really is just comes down to dps more dps is better imho. Saddly very few of the top end crafted weapons are worth making, since you have us to go to upper tier dungeons with. Swords/Maces will hit with sinister strike for harder than daggers, but you loose backstab which most of your dmg comes from as a dagger rogue. With a 50dps main hand sword I crit for 800-900 on sinster strike and hit regularly for 300-400 range. Been meaning to perhaps respec ghosa for dagger if i find a 45dps or greater dagger some day to compair how much i get out of backstabs. PvP wise, i'm happy with my sword spec as i can drop people fast, but i find keeping them in range, and not having the reset talent, 1 vanish, 1 blind every 5 mins often isn't enough. Addrenalin rush the top combat talent turns you into a killing machine for those 10seconds but in pvp people dont hold still that long so its more useful on bosses. I think i've now confused myself more than I've answered previously asked questions (Forgot to mention the barman shanker was so popular as it was the slowest dagger in the game so used to hit the hardest for backstabs/ambush but with the normilization its only ok now)

Edited June 3, 2006 by Crikrunner