Mage and Shaman Changes

[Crikrunner]

Just curious what other's plans are for the 2 classes getting talent changes next patch. I'm leaning towards going back to elemental with crikrunner now that the auto crit is on a 3min timer, not sure where i'd put my other points though. I'll really miss nature's swiftness , and the tallent that lets you not get interupted as often on the short heal. May put leftover points there, but also the improved enhancement tree is really looking nice.

On the mage side of things, Putralia was a fire mage for 44 lvls, but after changing to ice I enjoy the control aspects of it. Also nothing quite like the rush of soloing 5-10mobs at once. May try an Ice / Fire build post patch or vice versa, all the great single target fire dmg, with sub in ice for enhanced slow, longer slow, and imp blizzard.

Mostly curious what other's plan on trying. Thanks Crikrunner

[Huato]

Huato is going purely elemental/enhance.

I'll post a link to the talent calculator once I am able too (can't do it at work...they have the site blocked. grrrrr.)

Anyhow, a majority of the points will be elemental with enough in Enhance to get the improved goa and soe totems as well as two hand axes/maces.

[Maube]

I am still hemming and hawing over an elemental build... or sticking to close to what I have now

[Martok]

Ug is going elemental with a tad bit of restoration.

[Waldonnis]

Not one single clue. Honestly, I wish I could say that I was excited about the mage portion of the review, but I'm just not and nothing really sticks out as "wow, that's a neat talent/improvement that I want to try to work into my spec". I'll try a few builds, I'm sure, and elemental builds will be very popular (they got the biggest boost)...no idea what to do, though.

[Huato]

I know the feeling Wald. It's the same way with Shaman. We didn't get anything new, just talents were condensed into other talents so we don't have as many crap talents to spend points on or useless pre-reqs. We did get a couple interesting ones in the Elemental tree, but they are not too terribly impressive other than getting the ability to cast uninteruppted upon being the victim of a crit.

Otherwise my build will be slightly different than what it is now. Nothing earthshattering, and I like the fact that Elemental Mastery is now on a 3 minute cool down and makes the spell free (mana wise)...hated popping that just to have it resisted and wasting the mana AND having to wait 5 minutes.

[Waldonnis]

We didn't get anything new, just talents were condensed into other talents so we don't have as many crap talents to spend points on or useless pre-reqs.

Oddly enough, they increased the amount of crap talents and useless pre-reqs in the mage trees, especially in the arcane tree.

[Huato]

That sucks.

So far I think Druids got by far the best review with the Paldins getting an equal or just barely under the Druid's review.

[Qiris]

You know, before the priest review came out, I was pretty excited about the changes even though my priest was pretty young. And overall, I think some of those changes were fun.

I'm with Verissi though, the mage changes are just kinda meh. In fact, *yawn* sort of sums up my feelings.

[Waldonnis]

That sucks.

So far I think Druids got by far the best review with the Paldins getting an equal or just barely under the Druid's review.

Actually, I think hunters got the best review overall. All three trees are viable to some extent and they did a lot to address some of the core problems with the class (not all, but some).

With the mage review, they opened up some spec options that weren't previously very viable, but really put a dent in the utility of some of the talents...and limited the usefulness of some of the established build ideology. PoM is still deep in arcane, for isntance, but the talent pre-reqs are horrible now and a waste of points.

*shrug* I'm going to reserve judgement on it all until I get the chance to play with some builds, but it feels like they spent most of their time on Naxx and put their "B team" on the reviews with instructions to "just tweak, don't alter much".

Maybe it'll all work itself out with the raising of the level cap, though. If they add new and interesting talents at that point, maybe their modifications now will compliment those better than they appear to on their own.

Hehehe, funny side note: after seeing the reviews in 1.11, rogues are starting to get nervous from what I've read...

Edited June 8, 2006 by Waldonnis

[Huato]

I am liking the elemental tree more...I played a little with the calculator again last night and decided that I am going with the elemental warding talent which is new...gives a 10% reduction in damage received from fire, frost, and nature spells.

I still end up with the same problem speccing Huato though...points I have no idea where to spend because it seems a waste to use them on the crap in any of the trees. I've specced what I want out of elemental and enhancement and end up having 5 or so points left that seem a waste on what is there.

It's not like on my Druid where I can look at the trees and spend all 51 points with no problem and not feel like they are being wasted.

[Crikrunner]

Thanks all this exactly the type of discussion I wanted to see.

For Crikrunner since i'm raiding with him now, and lack uber gear, I see taking him enhancement as a selfish spec, I could farm better but would not be as useful to the guild as a healer since I lack a great 2hander to swing, going elemental I see as more of a pvp build, so I think at first i'm going to respec for mana tide totem for raiding. This is what i have so far, where should i spend my last 8 points, I leaning towards 5 percent more mana from enhance or should I get more elemental? or less interuption of lesser heal for 5 man groups? Any suggestions thanks.

This is the build with 8 points left over so far

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...005005500055151

Also i mostly have +mana gear atm with a few +spelldmg/healing items, where are easyish to get +healing items i might get to get the most of my heals?, dabu

With my mage i'm leaning towards 31 fire 20 frost, I can still have the frost controls and imp blizzard for aoe hunting, and the single target fire for when aoeing isn't an option What do you think of this mages?, thanks

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...503200300000000

Also at a lost for last 8 points, maybe frost crits or scorch or thanks for ideas

[Huato]

I can help you with the +healing stuff since some of it is fresh in my mind from my Druid.

Rammstein in UD Stratholme drops a pendant that gives +33 to healing spells, Canon Master Wiley in Live Stratholme drops the Redemption staff which grants +66 to healing spells.

Another awesome item is the Hide of the Wild...I need to farm the mats for this, but it has +44 to healing spells.

Now...if you don't mind BRD, I just replaced Huato's Elements shoulders with Lead Surveyor's Mantle, which drops from Argelmach in BRD. It gives +15 to healing and damage. Those will be my shoulders till I can finally get the EF shoulders (Just need the EF shoulders and Helm on Hu to have the whole set).

Also picked up Burst of Knowledge on Huato on the same run I got the Mantle. That gives +12 to healing/damge as well, and on use reduces the mana cost of spells by 100 for 10 seconds. It drops off of Flamelash or whatever his name is.

Other awesome items outside of MC and BWL are the Seafury boots and legs from ZG. Those grant a good amount of + healing (and I think damage too).

The good thing about Shaman items is most of them that have +damage also have + healing.

I'm going all elemental/enhance with Huato once the patch comes out. We don't gain a whole lot from our resto tree (the new tree is much better and finally has aggro reducing for healing). I can heal just as well as a resto Shaman, but without some of the benefits.

[Crikrunner]

lol I did do those on the old tree oops . off to work have to get the new ones out , thought it looked alot the same

[Raeda]

Just a heads up, but as I was wading through the Shaman forums, I noticed that Eyonix said that a further Shaman review is coming in 1.12, so it looks like this review may just be a rush patch job. Almost wish they wouldn't have bothered really.

[Huato]

Oh great. So let me guess - elemental Shamans get nerfed in 1.12? lol

On a side note, since Blizzard has Paladins being defensive and buffing for raids, they really need to help the Shaman be able to cut loose on ranged DPS in raids along with our melee buffs.

[Maube]

Well that even more of a ###### on mages then ::sighs::

[Huato]

What is? For Shaman to do ranged DPS?

I can't touch you or Verissi's output overall, but I can do some decent burst damage...and I don't have the AOE that you mages do, so you guys and gals will always out do us on the damage meters.

I'd just like to be able to do ranged dps in raid environments too.

The time we took down Onyxia I had the Shaman casting lightning bolts between heals in phase 2 and she came down a lot quicker. Lightning bolt doesn't generate much aggro (Chain lightning and Earthshock do though), but does reasonable damage.

I don't mind healing and understand the need for it. I just suspect that if given the chance we could burn down some of the bosses a lot faster if Shaman were allowed to unload a little more often.

[Maube]

Actually I was referring to the Shamans getting ANOTHER review when they were smushed into what was SUPPOSED to be the Mage patch which then became lets sidetrack mages so we can do SHaman AND a new 40 member instance

[Huato]

Ahh, I see what you mean.

I think most agree that they should have focused on one class per patch, even with a new 40 man dungeon (the team that does the dungeon is different from the team(s) that work the classes).

So we both get what appears to be half-assed reviews.

Truth be told, most believe the Mage review is more focused and better than the Shaman review due to the lack of blue intervention and listening to the Shaman community. The Shaman forum is a cesspool now...it went from every other thread crying nerf Shaman to constant suggestions and complaints about the class review.

[Maube]

Truth be told, we were given more crap talents to make the Arcane Tree even less viable and our damage STILL doesnt scale

the GM for the mage forums isnt the nicest chap. Being told to Lrn2play n00b when offering suggestions is well... frustrating at the least =p

[Huato]

Good god...I can't believe that guy keeps his job!

If it is any consolation, our damage doesn't scale either. I've had to get a lot of + dmg/healing gear to get to where I am at. That's another reason I am not thrilled with the Tier3 stuff aside from the mana/5 and the raw stats...it's all + healing...no damage and no + to crit either.

[Crikrunner]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...050050510550151

That is what i have in mind for crikrunner on the new ones. Want a raid focus with viable pvp build for a while, then ill spec elemental/enhance once i'm geared up more.

[Waldonnis]

None of the caster damage scales, per se (not totally true, but close enough). It's actually designed to NOT scale, but rather is additive/cumulative based upon base casting time. This is in direct contrast to most melee classes whose damage scales based upon stats (which have no cap). Sure, mages get 59.4 Int = 1% crit, but that's also the worst stat pt/benefit gained ratio in the game. In contrast, for example, rogues and hunters enjoy much lower ratios for strength that benefits their white damage...and have an additional agility ratio (also fairly low) that increases their crit chance while also providing defencive benefits (+dodge). It's a design deficiency, but seems to be intentional and here to stay...

As for Tseric, the mage forum seems to have a love-hate relationship with him. Some folks hate him because of his snide remarks and insistence that mages essentially complain too much considering how much "utility" they have...and the folks that love him seems to be the "I have +600 dmg gear and think mages are fine...you're just whining and lazy" crowd....not a healthy forum to say the least. There are some in between, but almost everyone has strong feelings one way or another about his representation. He has, in so many words, put down and discounted more mages and complaints than I can count. I think the only reason that he keeps his job is that nobody can say that he doesn't post often, which some call "communicating with the customers"

I'd hardly call the mage review better, though....if anything, it looks like someone really wanted to make the elemental builds viable at the expence of the utility formerly offered in the arcane tree and most of the current popular builds. Some people can say that IAE and evocation benefits everyone, but honestly, it benefits elemental builds more since they ordinarily wouldn't have had the points to spend in arcane to get those two things (improved counterspell was left where it is, much to the disappointment of many PvPers who will likely go elemental to keep or improve their current damage). In place of the now-trainable-spell talents, we get lovely, useful talents like a 5-pt talent to...improve our armour a little....meaning we'd be wearing terrycloth bathrobes instead of silk. I suppose that at least it was a focused review....focused on getting people into an elemental build and out of arcane

[Fomor]

Good god...I can't believe that guy keeps his job!

If it is any consolation, our damage doesn't scale either. I've had to get a lot of + dmg/healing gear to get to where I am at. That's another reason I am not thrilled with the Tier3 stuff aside from the mana/5 and the raw stats...it's all + healing...no damage and no + to crit either.

Welcome to all the priest gear except for Virtous(the Devout upgrade) and some pieces of the Prophecy gear. Great, the Faith gear set has about 350+ healing, but last I checked, we cannot heal a person to death.