Just a little MC request

[Maube]

Was looking over the NDKP purchases and seeing there is one person coming very close to completing his Tier 1 set.

Which brings up an interesting comment I read on the WWs board.

If someone is missing one piece of their Tier 1 and has to Horde DKP to get it... it isnt helping the raid...

SOOOO

I am thinking that if someone needs one or two pieces of their Tier 1 to complete the set... would anyone be offended if I ask others with Higher DKP on the item to pass for the person to complete the set?

Of course I usually ask people things like that anyway when they bid =p

[Waldonnis]

Not a bad idea, actually. For mages, rest assured that the DKP ho that is Verissi is only interested in two more Arcanist pieces at most until we start seeing some other mages with sets completed I'm just after one of the set bonuses (+damage) and intend on filling in the rest with some other things that I have my eyeball on.

[Huato]

Technically there are two people that are 2 pieces away from their tier 1 set

[Maube]

Meh you didnt get most of your set with this group so I dont see it in the DKP list

But you bring Zu more often then Hu now =p so um... it wouldnt help the raid for Hu to get the whole set then retire Hu for Zu =p

[Huato]

I know...it turns out Zuato is needed more than Huato, so I have been bringing him more.

When I ask whomever happens to be leading the raid asks for Zu, so I bring him.

I hope to have the remaining two pieces one of these days though. lol

It's like the Elements set. I only ended up with 6 pieces of it too. Never could get the damned helm. And the boots were difficult till the last patch, but it doesn't matter now that I have the EF boots.

[Maube]

bring Huato, but keep in mind Imight not ask for Priority until you are at one piece left

Of course back when we had 9 shamans every week it was more of a fight... but then again I am partial to Resto Druids

It comes down to people playing who they want to play! I would rather have people have FUN then get stuck playing a class they dont care much for... unless it's Uglutz

Edited June 13, 2006 by Maube

[Huato]

Actually, I don't mind bringing Zuato at all. In fact lately it has been more of a challenge with him since we've been low on healers, so it's been fun. Being resto spec, raiding is what Zuato does best, so it's fun. And I'm so far in the hole with him now for the Cenarion stuff and the ring that I might as well work on him more for the time being, especially since healing is a priority at the moment, and the Cenarion set will help him with that.

I like both the Druid and Shaman, so I can't say that I am playing a class I don't like. We still have a shortage of Druids at the moment, so it's good. And I'd gladly pass for someone to complete their set with either character.

And that is why I ask which one the raid leader wants whether it is MC or any other raid.

[Fomor]

Actually, I don't mind bringing Zuato at all. In fact lately it has been more of a challenge with him since we've been low on healers, so it's been fun. Being resto spec, raiding is what Zuato does best, so it's fun. And I'm so far in the hole with him now for the Cenarion stuff and the ring that I might as well work on him more for the time being, especially since healing is a priority at the moment, and the Cenarion set will help him with that.

I like both the Druid and Shaman, so I can't say that I am playing a class I don't like. We still have a shortage of Druids at the moment, so it's good. And I'd gladly pass for someone to complete their set with either character.

And that is why I ask which one the raid leader wants whether it is MC or any other raid.

Well, I would have liked to have had more healing gear(like a hid of the wild) but I think I can make a foray into the Core tomorrow if ya'll need healers... but I am at a crossroads. If I am to be a standby healer, please let me know now as I am fighting the urge to go back to shadow and just PvP. I want to help out the Clan as much as I can, but my gaming time is limited and all and I have to focus one way or another.

If ya'll need me as a healer for the Core on a mostly regular basis, I will be there every wednesday and most fridays(I work Friday nights at midnight, but some days I can go in late), and if you just need a back up I will go back shadow and help out on a piecemeal basis as I can.

Let me know what you need most and I will do it, it is the least I can do for all the help and support you all have shown me and Cwn since we joined.

Much Rotten Love,

Fomor

[Maube]

Fomor, just FYI

At 57 my priest Tazzak was Shadow.

I was invited to MC on Friday nights. I went.

I made up for my shadow status by a LOT of +healing gear, Brilliant Mana Oil (which Maube can make) and potions.

I was assigned to the MT because of my Burst healing. Of course my mana pool was itty bitty (couldnt even cast prayer of fortitude)... but with the use of consumables, it becomes doable.

Problem is, one of our Shadow priests right now does not bring consumables. Does not have +healing gear (only the prophechy earned) and has no sense of mana conservation.

It is a matter of personal Preference.

Sure once we hit BWL Shadow priests are right out (from what I read anyway) but right now, as long as you compensate.

It comes down to what YOU want to do to keep the game fun. That is what the Crushers are about.

As it stands right now, we could use you every week. And Cwn can come and DPS to her hearts content (yes I know you like to Tank but we have three tanks in full Dark Iron now )

HOWEVER, do not think you are being pressured =) at least any more then friendly persuasion =)

This is a game!

Oh yeah... Working on that Hide of the Wild

Need 7 more Larval Acids and 11 more Living Essences =p

Edited June 13, 2006 by Maube

[Qiris]

This brings up a DKP question.

In previous raiding situations, I've seen DKP awarded to the character, not the account owner. So using Huato as an example, he would get DKP for Huato when Huato attends and DKP for Zuato when Zuato attends -- except when the raid leader specifically requests one or the other of the chars. In that case, if Maube had requested Zuato attend, but Huato needed the DKP, that's where the awarded points would go.

So.

How are we handling that? Now I have a priest and a mage, both of which can be useful in MC and I can see this coming up for me, which is why I ask.

[Fomor]

Fomor, just FYI

At 57 my priest Tazzak was Shadow.

I was invited to MC on Friday nights. I went.

I made up for my shadow status by a LOT of +healing gear, Brilliant Mana Oil (which Maube can make) and potions.

I was assigned to the MT because of my Burst healing. Of course my mana pool was itty bitty (couldnt even cast prayer of fortitude)... but with the use of consumables, it becomes doable.

Problem is, one of our Shadow priests right now does not bring consumables. Does not have +healing gear (only the prophechy earned) and has no sense of mana conservation.

It is a matter of personal Preference.

Sure once we hit BWL Shadow priests are right out (from what I read anyway) but right now, as long as you compensate.

It comes down to what YOU want to do to keep the game fun. That is what the Crushers are about.

As it stands right now, we could use you every week. And Cwn can come and DPS to her hearts content (yes I know you like to Tank but we have three tanks in full Dark Iron now )

HOWEVER, do not think you are being pressured =) at least any more then friendly persuasion =)

This is a game!

Oh yeah... Working on that Hide of the Wild

Need 7 more Larval Acids and 11 more Living Essences =p

Maube,

I was only asking if there was a spot for me on a regular basis(ie at least every other week) as a Disc/Holy priest. I enjoy healing, always have... played a Doctor in AO and one in SWG... I just wanted to be sure I was needed on a regular basis or I would switch to a more soloable/PvP build and make up for it in parts. As you well know, a priest(much like a druid) is very limited in what they can do offensibly(and thus solo) if they are primarily a healer, and while I have Cwn with me 90% of the time, there are those times alone. That said, if the Clan needs healers, me and my 7000(ish) mana(with AB ) and all of my assorted healing/casting mods from the Discipline and Healing trees will be there, ALL THE TIME(as said time constraints allow), because what is better for the Clan is what is better for me... I like to melt faces, but winning the fight is FAR more important.

I guess I just want to see if I have a regular place in the big fights... I know I am a newb... hell, I only started playing this game at all back in late November last year... and I am still trying to find my place in the big picture of things. /shrug ((I also HATE to have group members die... I take it personally when a group wipes, because I always think that a good priest can cast at least that one last heal that makes a difference before *I* die... yeah, I am weird))

[Houli]

i am not the expert on this Qiris but it thought that the DKP was awarded to the account no matter what...

however the character has to be present to win the lewt. So if a BoE piece drops for a mage you cant roll on it if you are present with your priest no matter how much DKP you got...

i could be wrong tho

[Cwn]

As it stands right now, we could use you every week. And Cwn can come and DPS to her hearts content (yes I know you like to Tank but we have three tanks in full Dark Iron now )

He he he, my polearm has FR. Or I can hit them with my beatin' stick!

[Huato]

Qiris,

It's handled by account basis...so the DKP that I earn on Huato and Zuato go into the same pool and is spent from the same pool. With Huato I was way up there as far as the amount I had. I bought the Staff of Domination and still had a lot left over. I bring Zuato in and went negative with the Cenarion gear that I got.

So...if I bring Huato now I'm in the negative and probably won't get the helm and shoulders that I am short to complete my EF set for a while, but it was my choice to bring Zuato and I have gotten some nice gear for him in the process, and will probably bring Zu 90% of the time because he is a better healer than Huato is...and is fun to play.

Hope that answered your question...I do tend to ramble at times. lol

Fomor,

I think I can safely speak for Maube on this one...if you want a permanent spot you will get it. We are short priests and you would be gauranteed a spot if you wanted to come. ::prays Maube doesn't beat me for that ::

Edited June 13, 2006 by Huato

[Relikk]

DKP

Some guilds have a solution to that issue - instead of decreeing that person A needs one more piece and it goes to him/her, they simply ask players to work it out by themselves.

Making an exemption to DKP rules (and by right you can do this), sets a tone that the system implemented is something we partially follow and not altogether held to strict guidelines.

For instance - right now Lomar has more dkp than I do, I'm #2 for warriors this week. Since I have the shoulders of Might, and Lomar wants either the shoulders or the breastplate, I asked him if he would go for the shoulders (the rarer of the two) and pass on the breastplate if it drops. He agreed. However, Lomar has the right to go for the breastplate and he earned the right to !bid on it. If he changes his mind (I have seen players do this), I will simply wait and say nothing. I will say nothing because #1 he earned the right to, and #2 to not cause undue strife to the guild over loot as these items will drop again in the future and I will have a shot then.

All it means is possibly a few more weeks, or an agreement with fellow classmates.

Remember that line Sunny made in that movie A Bronx Tale when he was telling "C" about his men- "I always give them something, enough to make them comfortable, but not enough so they will leave."

Just my 2 cents on the matter. Please consider it.

Rel

[Fomor]

DKP

Some guilds have a solution to that issue - instead of decreeing that person A needs one more piece and it goes to him/her, they simply ask players to work it out by themselves.

Making an exemption to DKP rules (and by right you can do this), sets a tone that the system implemented is something we partially follow and not altogether held to strict guidelines.

For instance - right now Lomar has more dkp than I do, I'm #2 for warriors this week. Since I have the shoulders of Might, and Lomar wants either the shoulders or the breastplate, I asked him if he would go for the shoulders (the rarer of the two) and pass on the breastplate if it drops. He agreed. However, Lomar has the right to go for the breastplate and he earned the right to !bid on it. If he changes his mind (I have seen players do this), I will simply wait and say nothing. I will say nothing because #1 he earned the right to, and #2 to not cause undue strife to the guild over loot as these items will drop again in the future and I will have a shot then.

All it means is possibly a few more weeks, or an agreement with fellow classmates.

Remember that line Sunny made in that movie A Bronx Tale when he was telling "C" about his men- "I always give them something, enough to make them comfortable, but not enough so they will leave."

Just my 2 cents on the matter. Please consider it.

Rel

See, all of that is greek to me... I HATE the whole DKP idea but I understand how it applies given the current situation. That said, I don't care if I get an item or not, I know that I will eventually get mine(when all the other healers have it) and I just want to experience the raid at this point. Because hey, if I manage to keep everyone alive, it means that we move on to the next boss a tad bit easier.

[Huato]

Fomor, for what it is worth, a lot of the regular priests already have their gloves and other items...meaning that you would get those if they drop in all likelyhood...Friday night the Cenarion gloves dropped and were Dis Enchanted because there were no Druids present that did not have them.

You would also start at 0 dkp, and also earn dkp as items drop in there. Some classes are all negative (druids for one), meaning that you could potentially get two pieces in one run.

So...you may start at 0 dkp, but the possibility of getting Prophecy is good.

[Qiris]

Yeah but here's the thing. I don't want to bring Jiris to a raid, and spend Xiris' DKP. I personally would rather the two characters earn and spend separate DKP.

To give an example using the priest drops, if I bring Jiris and a priest item drops that's not needed by other priests, I do not want to spend Xiris' DKP gearing up Jiris. Further, if I bring Jiris often enough that she earns DKP, then I want to spend Jiris' DKP on Jiris, not Xiris.

I'd much rather put Jiris in the hole for her gear, and let Xiris earn and spend her own DKP for gear.

This message brought to you by someone who clearly should have named her chars with extremely different names!

[Huato]

Lol

I understand what you are getting at, but it's a nightmare to maintain 40 people's dkp with tools. lol

There are pro's and con's to it though. The pro's are exactly what you listed.

The cons would be in my case when I started bringing Zuato and he started at 0, then Huato would still be one of the highest DKP holders and could come in and clean up (even though he had not earned any new dkp) on Shaman gear. The other con is that I came in with a lot of DKP with my Druid and was potentially able to get gear ahead of the rest of the Druids (but a pro for Zu).

I'd like to have separate dkp for my two characters too. That's a discussion for Maube to address since it is her raid, and I will follow whatever method she chooses to use.

[Qiris]

That's a discussion for Maube to address since it is her raid, and I will follow whatever method she chooses to use.

Yup, that's why I'm bringing it up now. I'd like for the elders and Maube to think this through and come up with a plan (whichever way it goes) so we are clear on how DKP will work.

I've raided a long long time with DKP, and maintained really elaborate spreadsheets tracking all that crap, no fancy tools like what we have now (jealous really, could have used stuff like that back then), so I don't buy it that it can't be done. The question is how do we want to handle DKP when we have folks who have needed alts.

[Maube]

Alrighty, the way we decided to do it way back in day one is to have the PERSON earn the DKP not the character, mainly because of people with alts that I had to call in for situations like we are in now.

I use Gordantell. When we FIRST started we didnt have enough healing so I had to drag Jelorian in. Gordy didnt have much want to gear Jelorian up at the time so he would lose DKP on his main because of myself requesting.

Jiris, just because Prophecy drops does not mean you have to take it. Which comes down to me not wanting to make people bring their alts when they want to gear up their mains =) which is why I am sitting around trying to recruit rather then wanting to use the alts many of us have at our disposal.

Think of it this way... If you started bringing Jiris only... the other mages and casters would be earning DKP above Xiris. So you wouldnt be top of the pecking order when you did bring Xiris but Jiris would be top of the pecking order of priests...

Remember, you can pass on any item

And Relikk, I was saying if anyone would be offended If *I* ask them to pass, not making them a rule, but rather like Alhazad is missing one piece of Might but is at the bottom of DKP. Would you be offended if I ask you and the rest of hte warriors ahead of him to consider passing so he could complete his set. =)

Oh and one more thing!

This raid is mine =) So guildmatters and raid matters are trying to remain seperate so asking Elders would just get you referred to me anyway ::laughs:: =)

Elders and I were discussing this to try and get some ideas on the situations that can arise

[Huato]

Speaking of mains and alts...it appears we're short Druids for Friday's run. I signed up Huato, but if we are short Druids I would be glad to bring Zuato. Just let me know.

[Waldonnis]

If we weren't using zero-sum DKP, I'd say that giving each character his/her own DKP pool would make more sense than it does for our raid...for many reasons. But there are problems that would arise from doing so under zero-sum and could've lead to some unexpected consequences if Maube had done it that way from the start.

For instance....I now have four 60s that I can choose to bring at will. If we had a different DKP total per player, I could effectively guarantee a better-than-average chance per run of getting at least one epic (maybe more) for one of them simply by watching the sign-ups and current DKP standings. Knowing that druids are halfway through digging their way to China DKP-wise, I could bring Hoofie on a night when I would be the druid or tank with the highest DKP and snag a nice tanking item or set piece....then sign up on Waldonnis on a night that is loaded with warlocks in the negative and do the same thing. Ultimately, my epic-per-run ratio would be higher than anyone else in the raid, which would be unfair to those without so many characters to choose from.

The way it's structured now is the most fair to all involved, in my opinion. If I want to get Perditions for Tobalaya, for instance, I have to think about whether or not to spend Verissi's DKP on the Mana-Igniting Cord or ToEP. If Toba had his own, then I could walk into the raid and just take it when it drops if enough others are behind him in DKP. In essence, this prevents any one person with a billion alts from hoarding the loot. We actually had something drop that I would've liked for Wald on one of the runs I brought him in for, but I passed because I wanted stuff for Verissi first...it was tough, but me passing on that item (for a toon that I rarely play lately) allowed someone's main to get it and actually use it more than I ever would.

Personally, I like having to plan my choices and, at times, kick myself in the head because I spent my DKP early and watched a nice item drop shortly thereafter that I would've liked more....makes me more excited to see everyone getting their turn and snagging some lovely gear.

[Martok]

Damn! Talk about the biggest thread of the day.

I read most of it, but Ug have short attention span....

I'm happy with the way Maube has the DKP set up for now with per account. That way Waldonnis/Verissi/Hoofie/Toby can't clean house on loot. With seperate characters earning DKP, those with the most characters clean up the most loot.

Like Uglutz's situation. When we were over run with shaman, I decided to bring my warlock. Now that we're short on shaman, I really don't want to bring Ug anymore since Vrugz is so much closer to finishing out his set.

And on the set pieces: those that are closer to completing the set, say 1 or 2 items I have no problem having the others pass on it.

[Scryll]

Was looking over the NDKP purchases and seeing there is one person coming very close to completing his Tier 1 set.

Which brings up an interesting comment I read on the WWs board.

If someone is missing one piece of their Tier 1 and has to Horde DKP to get it... it isnt helping the raid...

SOOOO

I am thinking that if someone needs one or two pieces of their Tier 1 to complete the set... would anyone be offended if I ask others with Higher DKP on the item to pass for the person to complete the set?

Of course I usually ask people things like that anyway when they bid =p

I may be a total nub, but does it really matter if someone is hoarding their DKP? I can see it when a bunch of people are doing so, as that can lead to DEing stuff that actually is an upgrade for people, but I'm afraid I don't understand what the problem is otherwise.