Calendar

It's not really a new raid, so I'm not resetting DKP. However, I was contemplating some kind of DKP normalisation process once Ulduar comes out. Such a process would help in reducing the gaps between raider DKPs (so everyone's DKP standing would remain the same, but people would be slightly closer). There are some pros and cons to this kind of DKP tweaking: Pros: - It helps the people who had to spend a lot of DKP because they were late comers to the raid (or because they started out with inferior gear) - It allows people who have made DKP mistakes when gearing to catch up and stay competitive - It mitigates the "DKP Hole of Doom" effect on the people who find themselves so far in the hole that they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel (and will never be able to obtain those really wanted gear pieces). Cons: - It disadvantages people who have hoarded their DKP - It doesn't reward the folks who have spent the time planning out which loot they wanted and save up for the specific drops - It rewards players who have repeatedly made DKP mistakes and have a disregard for proper gear planning - It disadvantages the folks that choose to complement their in-raid gear with pieces from other raids/endeavours So yeah, please discuss whether this kind of tweaking is something you may or may not want. Ulduar is still far away, so there's no rush and this is just an afterthought for the moment. Zu

Time Tuesday 8pm-11pm server (EST) Thursday 8pm-11pm server (EST) Roster The raid roster can be found at the following link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p3P...zjNGwDeY2Mfvqeg Open Positions: 1 Melee DPS (Enhancement Shaman preferred, but not necessary) I'll also accept to bring a range DPS in lieu of melee for anyone that can demonstrate exceptional player skill Raid Leads and Important Positions: Raid Leader: Zuworty Heal Leads: Kadiana & Uglutz Tanks: 1) Holyssa 2) Ascoli 3) Tyrandius DKP DKP is based on a modified (simplified) ZeroSum distribution. DKP Tables can be found at the following link: http://www.webdkp.com/dkp/Argent+Dawn/The+Hateful+Raid/ In-Game Calendar I'll still be using the same rules as before for the in-game calendar. ** If you do not accept an invite 24 hrs. before the raid, it will be assumed you are not coming, and you will be replaced for that evening ** To cancel for a raid, please do the following: >24 hrs. Notice --> Please mark yourself as declined on the calendar and send an in-game mail to Zuworty. <24 hrs. notice --> Add a post to this thread stating your absence and mark yourself as declined on the calendar. ** Failure to notify will result in DKP loss ** Raid Statistics Kailand's statistics page can be found at the following link: http://wowwebstats.com/ro6el5mg4eoeu http://www.wowmeteronline.com/user/loglist...XFUVDFmY0E9PQ== These are normally updated within 24-48 hours of the last raid. Big thanks to Kailand for hosting this. The Raid Bank Current raid bank funds = 4650 Gold Abyss Crytals - Can be requested for any raid and main spec relevant gear - Are free for any enchants on items with an iLevel greater or equal to 213 - Are 20DKP for items of lower quality Let's have fun in there! Your raid leader, Zuworty

Hey guys, Just wanted to lay some of the plans I had with respects to the main raid. Unfortunately, with Baracko's recent departure, a disintegrating roster and quite a few issues left unresolved I think I'll have to instate quite a few changes to get things to run smoothly again. 1. Roster I'm opting for a fix roster with 25 regulars. I acknowledge the fact that we a lot of people requiring replacements lately so here's the rule-of-thumb I'll be following: - We require a minimum of 20 people, anything less and the raid will be cancelled - Only moderate efforts will be made to find missing people's replacements - It's the absentees' responsibility to find a suitable replacement Here is the roster we have now: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p3P...zjNGwDeY2Mfvqeg We are currently running healer heavy and 1 short on melee DPS. If anyone has good enhancement shaman that would like becoming a regular, please let me know. I also need to know who among that list CANNOT consistently attend all 3 nights of the raid (this is VERY important since we're going to a fix roster). 2. Schedule We're doing quite good at the moment and I've been getting requests to drop the 3rd raiding night. Pros: 3rd raiding night means we have ample opportunity to clear everything We'll be able to move into Ulduar while maintaining a presence in EoE/OS It also "reserves" the 3rd night for later raiding opportunities should we need it Cons: More nights = more absences We tend to not do as good on the 3rd night (see point above) We have a lost of interest after 3 nights of raiding I'm not taking a decision with regards to this right away, but I'd like for folks to discuss and let me know their feelings on this. 3. Abyss Crystals We are starting to accumulate quite a few of these, so I'm changing the rule in order to make them more accessible to raiders. If you have an item with an iLevel of 213+ and require an Abyss Crystal you can request it from the raid bank for free. For any other item, the cost remains 20DKP. (If you don't know how to see the iLevel of items please check out wowhead or get a mod that will show it to you). 4. Ulduar I don't care about what may or may not happen. I'm still running with a fix roster for Naxx. I'll try to balance things out as best as I can. If we hit Ulduar and find that we have too little or too much healing/DPS/tankage than please expect a reshuffling of roles. (Basically this amounts to a "we'll see when we get there").

Just wanted to take a few minutes here to thank Baracko for the time and effort he put into rebuild this raid post-expansion. As anyone with raid leading experience can tell you, it takes a tremendous amount of work to build the rosters, set up the DKP system, plan out scheduling, deal with replacements and generally attend to a raid's needs. I think I speak on behalf of all the raiders when I say we are thankful and appreciative of what Baracko has been able to do and the time he spent preparing this endeavor. We wish him the best of luck (and much loot whoring) in his coming adventures. I know this might not the proper place for this but... Being second in command I want to make a quick statement to assuage people's concerns; I will be taking control of the raid. I have my own plans on how I'd like to go forward and will announce them in the coming week. Zu

Let me start by saying this is NOT at all what was intended. In fact for a rotational roster to work and be fair we MUST have ALL players rotate with someone of a similar role (i.e. tanking, melee, range dps, etc). Reasons why this has effected healers more than any other group is simply because we haven't been able to recruit enough players for the other roles and because the nature of raiding at moment allows us to have a more flexible healer allotment. If a rotational roster is adopted, I can guarantee you that ALL players will face a rotation, NOT just healers. I'm quite disappointed that many of you fail to even see the value behind a rotational roster. The main arguments are always "What about my gear?" and "Sitting out sucks"...Since when has this raid ever been about gear? And we all know sitting out sucks, but so does having an absent player and then waiting 15 to 20min looking for a replacement. The rotation isn't perfect at the moment, it's missing quite a few elements to it....try to look beyond that and see the value that it could bring. ================================================================ As for this whole Ulduar Vs. Naxx business... I share Waldy's sentiment, it's impossible to know what Ulduar will require, it's all speculative at the moment and not really worth worrying about. However, when it comes to roster configuration the following observations can be made: (By roster configuration I'm referring to the number of healers, tanks, melee and range DPS that we choose to bring) - We had a fixed roster configuration back in SSC/TK/MH/BT - As things got more difficult we found it almost impossible to have any kind of flexibility in the roster (anyone remember Gurtogg and how difficult he was without having 8 healers instead of 7?) - BT forced us to change our roster for an extra healer (I forget the history exactly, but as I recall someone dropped out to allow this) - In Naxx we are back in a raid with very low difficult, allowing us to bring anywhere between 6 to 8 healers (3 tanks and 14 to 16 dps ). - Blizzard has stated that Ulduar would be more difficult, so I expect us to lose much of the flexibility we are enjoying now. I don't know what this lack of flexibility means for the raid, but I'm sure we'll have to do though decisions on who to bring. ================================================================ As for fixed rosters, since many of you seem to want this. Please understand that due to the lack of any kind of flexibility, repeated absences are NOT going to be tolerated. People with unstable schedules will be bumped out of the regular roster. This is the only way that type of roster will work. Cal

Hey Orcala, I'm not sure if you read the ElitistJerks forums at all (I'd recommend it for any class), they have a good post about cat DPS. http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t37382-cat_dps_rotation/ (They even include a good sample build which looks similar to yours with a few subtle differences -- Mind you, when choosing talents I usually go for the strict DPS increase talents instead of those that give debuffs such as stun...) As for hit cap, I'm not too sure how it works any more for the melee folks. According to wowwiki they seem to suggest 262 or 295 (maybe someone else could clarify this). If you need advice with regards to what gear to bid on, I suggest you look at www.lootrank.com. In the top right corner they allow you to select a template based on your class and spec that is applied to item computations. It spits out an ordered list of items based on the relative dps each item would give you. (Take the list with a grain of salt, but it's an excellent starting point for people looking to get more info on which gear they should be aiming for).

Hey guys, Well I guess it's time I wrote my own two cents with regards to this "rotation thing". Mind you this is gonna be a little long, but should give some insight on some of the thought process that went into this. Let me start by saying, as a former raid leader, there is nothing more stressful or aggravating then having to find replacements for raiders. (This is compounded by the fact that both Baracko and I have full time jobs which limit our play time). At the start of this raid Baracko and I discussed some options to alleviate the need to constantly find replacements. We came up with the follow rostering methodologies: Fixed Roster This type of roster is like what I had implemented throughout SSC/TK/MH/BT. It requires that all 25 raiders be present at all times. Despite asking raiders to actively find their own replacements, the onus is on the raid leads to validate the replacement or find a new one altogether. This is a lot of work for the raid leads and gives a minimum of flexibility for raiders looking to have a day off once in a while. I must admit that for the most part (especially at the start) this worked well for us. However, as time went on, more and more raiders were absent and dumped the entire process of finding replacements on the raid leads (not fun ) Rotational Roster The idea for this type of roster was to hire more raiders than necessary. Ideally the aim is for 1 to 2 extra players per "role". A fixed rotation would take place where on a given night a single individual per "role" would sit out from the raid to allow the extras the chance to raid. This type of roster alleviates the troubles associated with absent players, since there is always a player sitting out. Challenges with Having a Rotational Roster - The process needs to be transparent and fair. (I will admit some work definitely needs to be done with regards to this). People have a right to know when they are expected to sit out in advance so that they can plan to do other activities. I suspect the best way to do this is either via some kind of public Google Spreadsheet or utilizing the in-game calendar in a creative way. - Extra players need to be found for each "role". (Once again, this is something we are lacking, it would require us to do some recruiting). - There needs to be good communication between raiders and the raid leads. If someone is going to miss a raid, advance notice needs to be given. I find it unacceptable that someone sitting out would have to be advised 15min after raid start that they are in fact gonna be raiding. ================================================================ I think both types of rosters can work just fine if properly established and I personally don't have a strong preference towards either. Some people will prefer the flexibility of a rotation while others don't like the idea of having to sit out. Which ever one of these rosters gets adopted I think we need the cooperation of all raiders to make it work! Current Challenges Here's a list of some of the issues that are currently causing us headaches with regards to deciding how best to proceed: - Lately we have been having TONS of people missing due to connection problems. (I know these might be temporary, but replacements must still be found). - We have a few folks with variable or slightly less predictable schedules. - Our roster is completely unstable. We are somewhere between a fixed roster and a rotational roster without much consistency. - We currently don't have a very good understanding of how our raiders view either options (hence why Bar created this thread). - New this time around, we have folks who have forced us to accept that they cannot or will not participate on every raid night. (i.e. they will consistently miss one or two raid nights). The last issue, in my opinion is a huge roadblock to maintaining a proper roster. It forces us to carry an extra amount of people regardless of the roster type and it also complicates the rotation quite a bit. (This is a personal pet peeve of mine and I find that it has a direct negative impact on the raid). ================================================================ I don't think anyone takes the raiders for granted, nor do they see them as "slots". Most of us have been raiding together for quite some time and I think I speak for the majority when I say we all appreciate the friendships we have made and the fun we get raiding together. This issue has brought to light some strong emotions but I think together we can find something that works. Regards, Cal (now known as Zu) PS To Waldy: I think you were pretty much directing the following at me since I'm the only one who seems to get names, colors, shapes, classes and races wrong: I do apologize if I did get your name wrong a couple of times throughout the past few raids. Please know that it's not personal and certainly not because I don't appreciate your presence. I guess I should just blame my inability to quickly adapt to change, we all make mistakes sometimes . PPS The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily aligned with those of all the raid leads. PPPS TLDR Version: Rotation Roster The Good: Flexible schedules and easier time to get replacements The Bad: It needs a lot more work to be transparent and fair. The Ugly: Doesn't matter what we do, too many of our raiders are consistently missing and have odd schedules. Fixed Roster The Good: Everyone raids all the time (is this really good?) The Bad: Raid leads do all the work all the time whenever people miss The Ugly: People not showing up to all the raid nights make finding replacements that much crappier Conclusion - They both work, lets pick one - Lets not fight and have a big group hug

Hey guys, Just wanted to give everyone a short reminder, a lot of Crushers are quickly signing up for various 25man runs. There are currently 2 runs being organised; this one that Baracko and I are building together as well as Maube's Wednesday Sartherion run. In the hopes of providing solid rosters to both of these raids I urge players to please take a look at the Maube's post concerning the other 25man raid "Maube's Raid". Please verify your availability prior to commiting to either of these. Obviously 2x 25man raids will mean that both groups will have to work together to provide the best possible raiding opportunities for all Crushers alike and we will likely need to pull resources from other friendly guilds. Regards, Cal (aka Zuworty)

Hey Holy, Zu is still 9 points away from being able to do this unfortunately. When I get there I'll let you know

So besides becoming a zombie and beating people is there a point to this plague? Are there objectives that need to be reached? Tabards to won? Pets to be tamed? Does anyone know?

Hey folks, Recent discussions with raid leads and various players within our raid have shed some light onto issues that have plagued our little band of raiders for a while now. I would like to take a moment here to try and address these problems with the best of my abilities. Collectively I’m sure we’ll be able get beyond them and possibly break down the barriers that have been preventing us from progressing with our usual rate of success. The main issues are two fold: 1) Complacency As the raid stretches on, some our raiders have slowly been falling back onto bad habits. It has become increasingly difficult in motivating these players out of their bad habits. Unfortunately we are too far into end-game content and too late within the expansion to truly find ourselves suitable permanent replacements with both the gear, experience and player ability. So…since I cannot replace any of you, I’m stuck with having to beat you guys into submission. Unfortunately, the only stick I have to beat you guys with is my trusty “-DKP Stick of Hate”. Here are the beating rules: - The Stick will inflict -20 DKP if you are found without a food buff on ANY boss. - The Stick will inflict -20 DKP if you are found without a flask buff on ANY “LEARNING” boss. - The Stick will inflict -20 DKP if you fail to correctly answer the pop-quiz question before a “NEW” or “LEARNING” boss fight. - The Stick will inflict -20 DKP if you are not INSIDE the instance at precisely 7:30pm EST. (Doesn’t matter if you’re out summoning, you will get docked as well, it is up to individuals to find their own way within the instance). There will be 1 "Yes-Or-No" style pop-quiz question before the start of each “NEW” and “LEARNING” boss fight. This question is randomly thought up by me and will serve to force you guys to read up on the fights. “LEARNING” boss fights at the moment include: Gurtogg and Reliquary. “NEW” boss fights for example will be when we reach Mother Shazra. I know this all seems a little childish, but if it’s what it takes to oil up this raid machine of ours, then so be it. 2) Burnout Some of our raiders are showing signs of raid “burnout” (for lack of a better word). Symptoms usually include; lack of motivation, complacency, grumpiness, lack of patience, inability to cope with some of the negative aspects of raiding (e.g. wipes, strategy development, other players, etc.). If you are one of these individuals or if you have a particular gripe with the raid, I ask….nay I plead with you, to *PLEASE* communicate with me ASAP. If there is anything that can be done to potentially improve general raid morale for either the group or for a single individual I would be pleased to institute any required changes. PLEASE do not wait till you are completely jaded, resentful or apathetic to the situation before bringing up your issues. If you're losing interest, start talking to me about it NOW, don't wait until it's too late. If we find that the raid in general is apathetic to the whole idea of continuing or that a majority of the players view our future as bleak then there’s no sense in beating a dead horse and we shall gracefully bring it to a closure. That being said we will not tolerate drama in any shape or form. Those who cannot overcome their issues with be swiftly replaced. A final word: We estimate approximately 3 months before the expansion comes out. Obviously seeing our current rate of progression, we are unlikely to be hitting Sunwell. Neither loot nor content is currently the driving force behind the raid. Personally, I choose to raid for the pleasure of being in the company of friends and because I enjoy trying to overcome the challenge that Blizzard has set out for us. Whatever YOUR motivations are for raiding, the above statement is the current rationale keeping the raid together. My hope is that the majority of our raiders have expectations that align with this philosophy. See you all next Tuesday! Your raid leader, Cal P.S: You can bet your ass there will be a pop-quiz question regarding this post

Hey Perf, Now that you've studied the literature on how to demolish large groups of children, why don't you test your knowledge with a quiz! How Many Five Year Olds Could You Take in a Fight?

Hey Remm, I had picked up on that tactic as well from the video. I told Uglutz about it but unfortunately I think my tells might have gotten lost in a sea of useless raid chatter. It's up to the healers to try and figure out the tactic that works best for them. Also with regards to Jr RaidLeaders, this is only applicable in TS and raid chat. I really appreciate it when our raiders come up with new strategies/tactics in their off time and post it on forums. Proves to me that ppl are doing their homework and are finding ways to contribute to the raid progress. Last point...unfortunately I will not be able to attend tonight's raid. Seems like RL has a way of spontaneously creeping up on me. I have to deal with stuff at work and at home. I'll let Baracko decide what's best for the raid in this case (either more Bloodboil practice or Hyjal). Cal

He dresses in men's clothes too?!

In response to Baracko's post regarding Teron...I cannot stress this enough; PLEASE try out the simulator!!! Try it until you succeed, it really isn't that difficult! If you're finding it too hard it's likely because you're not using the right approach (I had this issue as well). Read up on the tactics a bit and you'll see it becomes MUCH easier if you use the right skills. You should only be needing 2 abilities: - Spirit Chains - Spirit Lance The success of the Teron fight is directly related to the raid's ability to inform themselves and read/practice tactics beforehand!

Those are very nice reminders, but I will be blunt: why does it look like a poorly illustrated depiction of Archimonde swinging his warbl all over the raid? o_o; I never said I'm the one who drew the pictures....but now that you mention it

Ok so today while at work, bored and wasting time, I came across this nifty illustrated version of the Archimonde fight for people to study. It pretty much tells you want you should be doing to avoid Doomfires...enjoy!

Hey guys, I just wanted to add a note here about connection issues: It doesn't matter if your connection isn't the best in the world. I don't require our raiders to have uber connections. Hell I don't even care if you're playing on a dial-up 14.4k modem. The idea is that whatever your connection may be, you should be able to perform at a level that is appropriate for the content. If you run at 2FPS with a 750ms latency but are able to deal with Archimonde's doomfire, airbust, curses and fear abilities appropriately then I have no complaints. Basically, internet connections should not be a reason for failure =) A little though love never hurt no one! Cal

Send the Nether Vortexes my way, I'm the one managing the raid bank for the moment.

That's fine by me Karrock, we can certainly accommodate you in which ever way you want to do this. Hopefully we will be killing Archimonde tonight, but if it looks like we can't, will you be staying with us the full 3 hours?

As far as the Archimonde strategy is concerned we are well aware of the "group clumping" strategy. For now however we will stick with our original tactic of having players run away on an individual basis. This does not negate the fact that if a Doomfire is close to you, you must run away!!! I suspect that even though we put the responsibility of running away on the shoulders of each individual player we will still see "mini groups" running together simply due to their proximity. We are not throwing out the clumping strategy yet, we're just pocketing it for now in case our current tactics fail. Also I'd like to raise an objection concerning the size of my circle in that drawing. My hit box is NOT that big

Hey great job guys!!! When I poked my head in TS last night I was a little skeptical since you hadn't gotten Akil'zon, but you certainly proved me very wrong. Great job! I'm sure you guys will get to Zul'jin in no time at all!

Spreadsheet Mistakes: Thanks for pointing out the mistakes on the spreadsheet. They have been fixed (let me know if you see anymore). Raid Schedule: The listed times and days are only "suggested" and depict a possible schedule for later on. As you all know our raid schedule is not fixed and it's often changed to meet our needs/challenges. The same was true of the SSC/TK schedule, despite the fact that SSC was meant to be on Tuesday and TK on Thursdays. *** As Baracko suggests we will likely be staying in Hyjal until its full completion *** Az'galor & Archimonde Strategies: We always appreciate any tactical input raiders may give. The final decision on how a battle is to be executed is the responsibility of the raid leader and the various raid role leads. The assigned roles and the strategies attempted last week in Hyjal were preliminaries to see what would work best for us. More investigation is required and we'll provide you guys with a more accurate description of how these fights will go. Epic Gems: No distribution strategy has yet been announced. As soon as we come up with a fair and equal system that allow all raiders to get the gems they want we'll let you know. In the meantime I ask all miners to please pass on their gems (both epic and rare) to either the raid role leads or the raid leader. Shadow Resistance Gear: As Baracko has indicated, shadow resistance will quickly become a high priority for us. That is why I encourage everyone to pass on their Hearts of Darkness to any of the role leads or the raid leader. These items play a critical role in provide shadow resistance gear to the entire raid, ninja looting of these items will not be tolerated. Your raid leader, Cal

Hey guys, Since we'll soon be tackling Mount Hyjal and Black Temple exclusively I've decided to close off this thread and start a brand new thread for that purpose. I think the SSC/TK thread has run long enough and it's time for us to have somewhat of a new beginning. So if you're interested in discussing anything regarding the main raid please post inside the new thread. Also, you'll find I've shorten the main post, added the current content of the raid bank (more to come on this) and of course I've added the group formations/roles spreadsheet (as I promised I would). There's still some work that needs to be done and I hope to get to it fairly soon! Cal

Mount Hyjal and Black Temple Raid Information Day and Time Mount Hyjal: Tuesdays 7:30pm to 10:30pm Server Time Black Temple: Thursdays 7:30pm to 10:30pm Server Time *** Subject to change depending on progression *** Quick Links: Roster Replacement List Roles and Group Formations Battle Notes SR Gear & Hearts of Darkness DKP Points Raid Statistics Information: Important Boss Information Teron Gorefiend Tactics Gurtogg Bloodboil Tactics Raid Layout Drawings Attendance, Loot and DKP Systems Please follow this link for more information. Content of the Raid Bank Availability of the raid bank items is subject to certain rules and condition, please ask one of the raid role leads or the raid leader for more information. Void Crystal: 42 Nether Vortexes: 15 Gold: 5000g Mount Hyjal / Black Temple Patterns: [Pattern: Shoulderpads of Renewed Life] x 0 [Plans: Dawnsteel Shoulders] x 2 [Pattern: Living Earth Shoulders] x 1 [Pattern: Swiftheal Mantle] x 1 [Pattern: Mantle of Nimble Thought]x 1 Your raid leader, Cal